Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: Teaching the correct 'down' posture?
Hiya,
Harvey's responding to 'down' consistently now but he doesn't really down as I'd like him to. He kicks his backs legs out to the side when laying. I couldn't prevent him from doing this even when luring so gathered it must have be natural and comfortable for him and just went with it.
He's now displaying this posture more during play but still not doing it to the 'down' command, despite going back to luring.
Just wondering whether this is a common behaviour, and will he down with his hind legs either side as he grows up? Or should I have been more patient and made him 'down' exactly as I wanted him to from the start?
I encourage Luna to flip her legs out to the side when in a down because then I know she is more likely to stay in that position!!
If she goes into a down with both back legs on either side she is more likely to bounce back up or knows that being asked to lie down is just a temporary measure so is raring to launch off!! I leave her in a sit stay on the start line at agility but when she is really excited she drops into a down with her back legs either side ready to launch! If she had dropped to a stay with her legs to one side I'd probably know it was time for her to leave the arena!!!
Is there a reason you want a more upright down? Is it for competition reasons? Going backwards into a down position tends to have them more upright, but I actually prefer a more relaxed down position as I tend to use it more for stays than anything else.
I can see that you would want a less relaxed down if using during heelwork for example, but I only use down these days if I want them to chill
I would go back to luring into the required position with maybe a new keyword for it if he is thinking "down" means the more relaxed version.
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The reason I wanted him to 'down' square was for heel work so he'd flow from 'down' to either 'sit' or 'stand' more smoothly. I can see it's more comfortable and settled with legs to the side though and he's much more likely to stay in that position when asked.
Think I'll go back to luring with a new command then, and use the existing posture for when I want him to settle down.
Months / it may be that as you start transitions from sit to down and back to sit then off to heel and back down he will automatically use the more up right down as he will have more of a sense that there will be another command soon and he will be poised waiting for it. Grouse used to have a relaxed down but now as soon as any form of training starts if I ask her to lay down - she is in a much more up right down, craning her neck to see what will happen next. It may be natural progression. I would probably stick with the down you have and if it doesn't progress on bring in anew version. I don't know how old he is but if your avatar pic is anything to go by pretty young? 2 commands too similar may confuse him at the mo.....
Yeh thanks Celine, I was going to leave it a while anyway as got enough to be getting on with atm. He's nearly 11 weeks so still young. Once he learns to go from one position to the other I'll see what happens, as you say he may down as I want anyway because it's quicker for him to get back up. At the moment he will go into a down from a stand, and down from a sit, but wont go into anything from the down
If you are trying to get a Cantilever Down (where all four paws stay in place and the dog folds down without moving it's paws, as in OB) then I think you are perhaps asking too much too soon. Most puppies haven't got the muscle power and aren't coordinated enough at only 11 weeks old to do this. You can't teach this from a Sit position though, only a Stand, as otherwise they move their front feet forwards which isn't what you want.
By all means teach him Down at this stage, but just let him lay how he wants rather than try to adjust him, as that might put him off. Then as he gets older and his muscles and coordination improve, you can teach the Cantilever Down giving it a different command name.
I remember seeing a video of Susan (Tractorgirl) teaching her young GR the Cantilever Down. Perhaps if you drop her a PM she will give you some tips.
At our training class we used to do rapid sit/down/sit/down transitions (we called them puppy press ups), this tends to encourage the correct position as they don't have time to relax.
As Laura said above though, the sphynx like straight down means that they can get up a lot more easily so a down stay is often broken. A relaxed down tends to do a lot better in a stay.
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