Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: When is a puppy not a puppy?
Hellooo,
I'm pretty sure there's been a thread on this before, but I can't remember the answer (if there was one)
Eddie will be 1 on the 5th June... there's a show on 5th June that I'm entering, can I enter him in the puppy class? (Definition of puppy for those interested - 'For dogs of 6 and not exceeding 12 calendar months on the first day of the show). He technically won't 'exceed' 12 calendar months, but I don't know what the answer is!!!
Clare - it really does (believe it or not) depend on who you speak to.
Some say that on their first birthday - they are still a puppy until the day after - others say they are Junior only on their first birthday.
I have witnessed what could almost be construed as riots at shows on this - and been on the receiving ends of two different opinions.
I entered Clover into Junior on her 1st birthday - she won her class and I was asked if she was challenging for best puppy.
I also happened to be at a show with Dream on her 1st birthday - again not in puppy - and despite being told before I went in the ring that she wasn't a puppy - I was invited by the steward to challenge for Best Puppy.
I've also had the same issue at 18 months with Clover - I entered her into Yearling - but her litter sister was in Junior and Yearling - because on the first day of the show, she was still eligible for Junior - even though on the day of the show she technically wasn't !!!
That probably really doesn't help you an awful lot - and I know for one that I would definitive proof of what the answer with, coupled with some sort of evidence to that effect to save what I witnessed someone else experience for the same issue - which quite frankly was quite unpleasant and caused considerable upset to the owner
Thanks.... so technically (I think) he is eligible for puppy, but not everyone is likely to be in agreement with that. I don't want to cause a riot Who would you go to for 'proof' Sue? The KC? Show secretary?
Thanks.... so technically (I think) he is eligible for puppy, but not everyone is likely to be in agreement with that. I don't want to cause a riot Who would you go to for 'proof' Sue? The KC? Show secretary?
Personally I'd ask the show secretary as ultimately - on the day - it will be their decision. If you ask them in advance and don't agree with their answer then you can always contact the KC and take it up with them, to clarify.
Thanks.... so technically (I think) he is eligible for puppy, but not everyone is likely to be in agreement with that. I don't want to cause a riot Who would you go to for 'proof' Sue? The KC? Show secretary?
Considering every show secretary I've spoken to appears to have a different view .................
This really is quite a contentious issue that also of course affects Minor Puppy, Puppy, Special puppy, Junior and Yearling (and any 'special variations thereafter) - and is probably much more of an issue at CH shows than it is at Opens.
It's also one of those issues that tends to go 'off the radar' when you don't have dogs eligible for age related classes.
I would like to think the KC could clarify the issue - but then unless you get a show expert - would you get the right answer? I don't know
The last time I spoke to the KC on anything to do with Labs, I was told that yellow was the dominant colour gene
ETA - my posts on this are not 'having a go at anyone' -
I genuinely believe the wording of the description of 'puppy' etc can easily be interpreted incorrectly.
I certainly believed the first time that on their birthday a puppy is no longer a puppy - it was others who hold more knowledge than me that contradicted this - and helped set in motion a chain of rolling events and misinterpretations that 4 years on we still do not appear to have a definitive answer for that everyone agrees on
Have had experience of this when stewarding at a NWLRC show a few years ago , and interpreted the ruling to be "still eligible to compete as a puppy if not over 12 months" (ie. if not 12 months and a day).
Phoned the K.C. the following day just to check that we had done it right, and they confirmed that this was, in fact, correct. They actually appeared surprised that there had been any confusion over this......and took the line,"Well, it's obvious, isn't it? The pup didn't exceed 12 months".
Have myself shown in Puppy Class at an all breed champ show with a pup that was 12 months and 2 days old, because the entry requirement was "not exceeding 12 months of age on the first day of the show", and my pup was 12 months old on that first day of the show.
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