Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: Feeding your Labrador Puppy - A personal Overview
Feeding your Labrador Puppy
” Hooray for FOOOOOD! “
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(Or …. How to find your way through the minefield, that is, dog food!)
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OK, before we start, its very important to know, that you can tell a lot about a breeder by the information they give you about food and feeding, when you collect your puppy. Food is very important. Its an important issue for them to have discussed or instructed you on when collecting your puppy. If it is glossed over, it can leave puppy buyers wandering, blindly, in the maze that is commercial dog food, wondering what on earth to do, especially if the breeder gives them no food to go home with OR chooses a brand impossible to obtain by the puppy buyer.
As a breeder, for me, rule ONE, and our crutial responsibility, is to ensure we wean our litters onto food that is:
* Nutritious
* Suitable for the job – IE producing a healthy, steadily growing puppy
* Is straightforward to obtain. So is NOT obscure, produced only locally to the breeder OR is complex to feed such as homecooked diets, for a new buyer.
Ideally, personally for me, knowing buyers wish to do the best by their new puppy possible, I REALLY would wean puppies these days, onto one of the commercially available complete kibble puppy foods. Over the years I have used Beta, Pedigree Chum Complete Puppy and James Wellbeloved for various litters. Now I wouldn’t use anything but James Wellbeloved, but only because I have had good results for the last ten years on it. My adult dogs are now fed Wainwrights and Skinners, however my litters will continue to be weaned on James Wellbeloved from their first bite, at 4 weeks old of puppy kibble, through to about six months of age. By choosing something complex, obscure or obscenely expensive, we do our buyers a diservice. We do our puppies an even greater one, as the buyers will NOT stick to what we have asked or advised. They will often change suddenly and overnight through necessity, and the puppy will immediately be set back with loose stools, upset stomach, often taking many days to get themselves back on track.
SO, that said, you may or may not have brought home your puppy on a food you wish to continue with. But for the record I shall describe the ‘types’ of food options available to you:
- Dry Complete Puppy/Adult Kibble:
Usually in sacks of 3kg, 5kg, 12kg or 15kg. A wide wide variety of ranges from the £10 per 15kg sack type (Dr Johns, Wagg, Supadog etc) Through to very expensive brands such as Burns, Hills Science Diet, Eukanuba etc at around £50 a 15kg sack.
- Wet Compete Foods:
Usually in tins, pouches or trays. These are complete meals needing nothing added to it to be a balanced diet. Usually a expensive way of feeding, but useful for fussy eaters. All brands usually between about £0.80 and £1.50 per pounch tin or tray, so basically per meal for a dog of this size.
A note on the two above food types. On their own they are complete. The main problem with the wet food, to me, is that 1) It tends to make a sound eater, a fussy eater, refusing to consider dry kibble once they have tasted the meaty wet stuff. 2) There is nothing in them to maintain jaw and teeth health, no crunching, it is all wet. Folks tend to THEN add DRY complete food to it for ‘crunch’, which completely unbalances the ‘completeness’ and tends to put weight on dogs immediately for obvious reasons basically that they are having, up to, TWO dinners per feed! Ditto folks adding complete wet food to mainly dry kibble to give it ‘appeal’.
- Tinned Meat and Biscuit Mixer
What you might call an old fashioned diet. Tins of ‘dog meat’ of varying brands such as Chappie, Chum, Pal and Winalot…. also most supermarkets have their own brand tin too. These are not complete foods and are mixed with a biscuit mixer, a bland plain biscuit meal that aids teeth and jaws. Tinned meat, whilst not expensive, is in the main, little nutrition and a lot of water. Therefore quite a lot needs feeding, 2 or 3 tins a DAY, plus mixure, and by golly there is some waste out the back end
- Homecooked diets/Bones and Raw Food (BARF)
A mix of veggies, raw bones, meat, leftovers etc, which, carefully balanced make a complete diet for your dog that is close to what they naturally would have eaten in the wild. Careful research should be undertaken to use such a diet, firstly to ensure what you are feeding fulfills all the dogs nutritional needs, and secondly that you can get a continuous supply of raw meaty bones so continuity occurs for the dog. Not everyone has a butcher who is quite so obliging as others
So what do I feed?
There are many issues here. However in a single sentence:
- Feed what suits YOUR puppy/dog, YOUR pocket and what is easy, for YOU, to obtain.
I stress this because every single person you meet will have an opinion on what you should be feeding your puppy. From the breeder, to the man that owns the pet shop, to your vet, to internet forums, to the people you meet out on a walk! If you wish to stay sane, NEVER ‘Google’ “What should I feed my puppy?” not ever! You will have to be physically dragged, from the one million pages of advice, with cross eyes and a tired brain about eight hours later!
The next important thing to say about feeding are:
- If you trust your breeder, and have had adequate and suitable advice from them, your puppy is doing well on what they have sent it home on, and her own dogs looked in good condition, then STAY ON THE FOOD THEY CHOSE FOR THEIR LITTER. Basically, if it isn’t broke, don’t try and fix it, whatever ANYONE says!
However, of course you may not be able to, especially if they have picked something hard to obtain, so therefore then you will have to explore other possibilities.
Its important to know that, without a doubt, dogs and puppies can be all very different. Even within a litter, some with thrive on even poor quality food, and some will become upset even just by the start of a new sack of the exact same brand. Some can chop and change like the weather between brands and types and so on, whilst some steadfastly refuse to consider anything other than the exact type they are used to. Some seem to do well on one food for a while, then seem to ‘go off’ it, and become pickier and pickier, until you are virtually forced to change brand. They then pick up eating again, before the same thing happens a few weeks later (sometimes even less!) You end up collecting 15kg bags of food with half or less out of them (remember if this happens to PLEASE donate any food you don’t want anymore to your local dogs shelter or rescue, they will rip your arm off for it even if puppy has turned its nose up!)
Food quality.
A lot is spoken of brands being ‘better’ than one another. There is truth in this, in life, generally you DO get what you pay for, however you should never feel guilty at not being able to afford (or sometimes your dog not being able to tolerate) the top whack price foods.
If you can, for me, a good middle ground is feeding a middle price complete food. Some choose to use the Puppy formula for a few months (ignore the bag saying till a year, that is completely unnecessary). Some wean a puppy over from the puppy food they come to you on from the breeder, to the adult formula of that variety within a few weeks. There is NO sound research either way to show what is right and wrong. Personally we feed puppy food until 6 months of age, but we know people who feed adult food from 10 or 12 weeks of age with perfectly good effect.
Bakers – Food of the Devil?
One food, personally, I would avoid, is Bakers complete. YES it is really easy to obtain in supermarkets etc, and a minority of dogs DO certainly do OK on it. But it IS a mixture of different colour kibbles, all coloured by additives and E numbers, and is like ‘smarties in a bag’ to many dogs. Tasty, but puts them through the ceiling! There are many around the same price (Chudleys, Supadog, Wagg etc) that are the same rock bottom price, but without the ‘Red Bull’ effect THAT SAID, if your dog is eating Bakers, feeding up well, holding its weight steadily, you are happy with what is coming out the other end and your puppy/dog seems alert, in good condition and happy to settle, then there is NOTHING WRONG with feeding Bakers. You could pay more and probably get better, but there is no harm done if it is not having a negative effect.
So basically IF your food is cheap, but your puppy is cheerful, then you are probably doing OK!
So which brand ?!
Foods we have PERSONALLY used for any length of time through the last 17 years (because to me, who can comment with any authority, on a food they have never used?? Bear that in mind when someone is trying to push a certain food at you or advise you to avoid a particular brand…..)
*Low* Price Foods: Dr Johns Gold £12.00/15kg sack, Chudleys Working Crunch (adult dogs only) £16.00/15kg sack, Skinners various £15-£20/15kg sack
My Own Thoughts: The amount of poo is high compared to more expensive brands. The amount of time taken to ‘adjust’ to the low priced food seems to be longer, than switching from low to higher priced food. Because of the low meat content of the food (and high meal and filler content) more needs feeding generally speaking which *can* make them a slightly false economy. Usually easy to obtain and widely available. All balanced complete foods that suit the vast majority of dogs except those with specialist dietry needs or with food intolerances, such as to gluten, wheat or maize. Some dogs cope beautifully and thrive on lower priced complete. Some simply do not and a higher quality needs purchasing. Personally, I would never feed a low price complete food to a PUPPY (Under 6 months of age). I will bite the bullet and pay more in those crutial months even if were to use the (usually cheaper) adult formula rather than the puppy.
My Own Thoughts: I have found Wainwrights to be a very good food indeed. I discovered it by way of feeding a dog who was prone to stomach upsets on everything else I tried, including JWB. The Salmon and Potato one was superb for him and turned him around. Now I feed it to three of our six dogs and they settled to it, from JWB brilliantly. Beta was a food that I fed to all my dogs and litters about ten years ago for 3 – 4 years. I found it perfectly acceptable. It seems to have a ‘poor quality’ reputation but this has not been our experience. The ingredients do not seem to have changed from when we were feeding it. It is very easily obtainable. Wainwrights can only be bought at Pets at Home stores.
*High* Price Foods: James Wellbeloved £45.00/15kg sack, Royal Canin Labrador 30 £45.00/15kg sack
My Own Thoughts: I rate both of these foods very highly indeed. However as regards JWB, I have found Wainwrights to be equally good in every way and at least a tenner cheaper per sack. RC Labrador 30, Allan fed for several years to his dogs and it was excellent. I won some on several occasions, and have to admit that with absolutely NO changeover period, my adult dogs tolerated it immediately without a loose stool between them. It has been the foodstuff that has produced the least poo for the portion size in my estimation. But then it is the MOST expensive thing I have ever fed so I would expect results, quite frankly for that money.
Bear in mind these are not ALL the brands out there, just the brands we have used, ourselves, for more than a few months at a time over the years.
I would not even consider paying more for dog food. Once I had to pay £70 (yes!!!!) for a sack of Hills Science Diet special allergy food whilst they tried to suss out why a certain dog of mine was loose, literally, all the time. The snag was on the £70 he was looser than on the £16 Chudleys Working Crunch! Work THAT one out!!! I really don’t believe that you have to pay top dollar to have a fit, healthy, happy dog. And thats from experience, not opinion.
I am not a technical sort of person. Its not difficult to work out that you do tend to get what you pay for with food, in the main, but there are perfectly good ways of not paying a fortune UNLESS your dog turns out to have problems which require specialist food. Even then, I believe many have overcome problems with homecooked diets, which whilst timeconsuming and needing quite some planning and thought, is a LOT less expensive route than £50-£70 sacks of special dietry food from the vets or stores.
Why have I not done a comparison of ingredients in these various foodstuffs to judge their worth and quality? Percentages of this verses percentages of *that*? ……… Hand on heart? Because I really don’t care *if* they work for my dogs in practice, rather than theory. And by golly there are many *theories* out there.
Something that is important to say is that ALL puppies have loose tummies from time to time. Especially after being wormed, in hot weather, whilst teething and when they have their vaccinations. Do not always be fooled that the food you are feeding is the problem. Once a puppy picks up a bacterial infection in their gut it can be merry hell shifting it, and food will count for practically nothing in that. So constant loose stools require vet help not a repeated swapping of foods and trawling the internet to ask what *others feed*.
I am always happy for any questions on this topic, however, the above is *our* first hand thoughts and experience. You can make life TOO complicated. Bear in mind when changing food at least two weeks of upset and loose stools can be expected however carefully and slowly you change over, but, otherwise as regards feeding: Find something that works, however cheap or expensive, and STICK to it
Last edited by Diana on Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
thanks Di,
i found this reassuring and helpful, i have been and will continue with a mix of wainwrights puppy (wet in trays) and science kibble puppy large breed and Toby seems to be fine on this. (breeders recommended)
yesterday was a trial though with a house full (12 for dinner) + 1 springer 1 shihtzu and 1 bedlington terrier. chaos all day and Toby being fed when i wasn't watching resulting in him having the runs and being sick.
he is now ok.
i might take a look at jwb when the science starts to run out.
Take Care.
Gary.
Gary, the Science Diet IS really expensive I presume... and I understand, although it working, you maybe wanting to move away from it.... BUT if money is not an option (although who can say that really!??) if its working great. I wanted the whole article basically to say 'stick with it' if its not broken..... especially as the combination (although a bit unusual!) is on your breeders recommendation.
Have you considered, if he gets on well with Waiunwrights wet food, wainwrights dry complete kibble. I have to say have found it excellent (as detailed in there) ?? Rather than JWB which is great but we found Wainwrights absolutely on a par and a tenner cheaper a sack....
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
As you know Di, feeding, especially of youngsters, is something I'm very interested in.
I have to agree with you about the Wainwrights feeds, especially the Salmon and Potato variety. Having fed all manner of feeds but finding JWB to be one of the best, I have found Wainwrights to be just as good quality and I'd say, it has been even better than JWB for digestability. I don't think I'd go back to JWB again and even though I now feed a home cooked/raw hotchpotch diet, I do always have Wainwrights as my standby and my girls happily swap between kibble and their usual rations.
From my own experience, the only thing which concerns me about feeding a purely complete kibble diet, especially to very young pups through to adulthood, is just how sensitive this can make their tums.
Having had pups reared on all manner of things from weetabix in cows milk, to BARF, it has only ever been the Complete Kibble Only pups which have found it difficult to swap between foods.
This I have managed to sort out in my own pups, by gradually adding a variety of foods into their diets regularly, until they could eat virtually anything and it not have dire effects on their tums, however the two GDBA pups were on a very restricted Kibble Only diets really, only ever having the very rare tidbit. Consequently they both have very senstive tums now. Someone slipped Una a small slice of meat while in a restaurant and she had a bad stomach for over a week afterwards. She is guaranteed to have the squits or vomit (or both) if she has anything other than her usual kibble now, which I find not only a great shame, but I know it is also a real worry for her new Mum, as not only does this mean she can't be worked until her tum settles but clearing up after a runny bummed, pukey dog is not easy when you have absolutely no sight.
You are right in a way, about feeding a pup nice meaty stuff making it not want to eat what I call Boring Brown Balls, although I have only ever had one dog which would rather STARVE than eat them in the end (and I'm sure you can guess which one that is ) but my BARF weaned, hotch potch weaned pups have had the sternest constitutions from the word go....Never suffering if I have changed their food at the drop of a hat. And for that "luxury", I personally would much rather pups be weaned onto a less restricted "Little bit of this and little bit of that" type diet, as any fussiness it causes pales into insignificance compared to having a dog who you have to watch what it eats all it's life.
I knew you'd say that, Jules Even as I wrote it and considered putting it on LF too
Actually over the years I've agreed with you more and more. Certainly, as I've said previously, us breeder (us! I like that, you know what I mean) who do TRY and give our pups and buyers a great deal of continuity by feeding consistantly a easy to source good quality kibble, *do* certainly seem to create a bit of a monster in that they don't 'adjust' easy. I think your experience is slightly 'exaggerated' NOT by how you tell it, but because you HAVE to obey the 'powers that be' when you have a Assistance Pup, and so have stuck with the original kibble with little else for so very long before the 'evil encounters' now and then of stuff that upsets them. I do think pet puppy buyers do swap and hange, naturally, and give more 'extra stuff' than you as someone trying to keep to a strict routine or face fire and wrath from your area co-ordinator
(Sorry pressed send too fast.... more...)
I definately agree the 'bit of this and that' dogs of (mostly) the past, seemed far more solid in their constitution. But I know that if you asked the average new puppy owner to feed a 'bit of this and that' they would be emailing you every day saying 'I fed THIS today, how much of THAT should I feed tomorrow'? And thats not an insult, its just a show of how concerned about getting feeding 'right most buyers are these days. Hence most breeders who care in the slightest, feeding something less complicated.
But I do think its not a bad thing to experience 'other stuff'. Yesterday the 8 month old had turkey, kibble, a sasuage roll or two, some quiche, a good few breadsticks, a nicked pig in blanket, gravy, half a yorkshire and endless carrots. I drew the line at Brussels And she lived. Loose today, no doubt, but give it a day....
What concerns me are folks that pick to feed a wet food then believe they have to add 'dry' to it for crunch (don't pick a wet COMPLETE food then, feed Chappie or Pal or something!!!!) or people who feed a dry food and believe dogs HAVE to have meat and so then chuck wet complete in too on a very regular basis then wonder at 5 why the dog needs a diet.
But thats just me!
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
I can see what you are saying and trying to achieve, as most new puppy owners do get their knickers in a twist if their pup gets a bit of a runny bum occasionally, so weaning and keeping the pup on a consistant diet is less of a worry for them. They know the pup is getting all it needs and the pup has nice poos at much the same time every day (every new puppy owners dream ).
I can see very well why complete kibble has become the most popular choice for dog breeders and owners alike, as it takes away any guess work and worry. I do wonder if it has created all this Worry though, as I don't remember anyone worrying so much about what their dogs were fed in the past. Nowadays it's all about a "Balance diet, Full of Meaty Goodness", when this never really entered people's head before it had been shoved down our throats by TV adverts and so called Scientific Research. It does always strike me as extremely odd that more people seem to worry now about what their dog eats than many others worry about what their children eat.....But that's a whole other story.
And thinking along that line...When you wean human babies, you give them little bits of this and that and would never dream of feeding them just the one food, even if it did fulfill all their dietary needs....and yes you do get the odd squishy (sometimes explosive ) nappy when you introduce a new food but that is part and parcel of developing their digestive system. I just feel pups aren't that much different. The more encounters with new foods they have from weaning, then the less likely they are to have intollerances, allergies and runny bum responses to new foods later on in life.
And yes I realise my experiences of raising pups has two extremes. On the one hand, I've had the GDBA pups who's feeding regime was totally restricted and out of my hands and on the other hand I've had pups who were weaned onto raw chicken carcasses, tinned meat, porridge and a huge array of other foods.
My first pup's first meal at my house was fish fingers, as I hadn't planned of getting a pup (long story) and I had nothing else in to give her. She was only 5 weeks old, but the fish fingers went down well and never caused a problem, as did the weetabix in warm milk the next morning. So I guess she had been weaned onto a right hotch potch.
Anyway I'm waffling on now, wandering off at tangents all over the place, because this daft old computer keeps cutting out before I'm finishing each paragraph. I hope some of it makes sense though.
No it does.... I'm not really saying in the article, that, as a puppy BUYER, you must feed complete food, (I sort of am, however, as a breeder to give your BUYERS a fighting chance of following a diet plan when they leave the nest though...) which is why I detailed the other options, ncluding homecooked, just that if you DO, you must not feel hidiously guilty if its not something of solid gold proportions if it works for your dog.
I think, whilst LF may not be deemed 'real life', it *is* a real proportion of Labrador owners. more than any other source quite frankly. 8,000 - 18,000 new members a year depending who you ask, and what? 100 - 150 theads a year asking about food for a puppy, runny tummies and trying new foods, people being upset that they read that they are feeding a 'rubbish' food etc etc..... its hard to nail down ONE thing to tell people other than 'if you are feeding something that works for you and yours don't give a STUFF what other people say (even if its Bakers)' Is pretty much the feeling I want to get across.
Asking will only blow your mind up Feeding has about 250 straightforward answers and about 2500 more complex ones
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
its hard to nail down ONE thing to tell people other than 'if you are feeding something that works for you and yours don't give a STUFF what other people say (even if its Bakers)' Is pretty much the feeling I want to get across.
Oh yes, I definitely agree with you there (even if it irks me to think of anyone feeding Bakers ) . Every dog is an individual. What suits one, won't necessarily suit another. Some dogs will do well on the cruddiest of rations, whereas others need a more specialised feeding regime. All different.
And I'm all for "If it Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It".
Thats fab, totally agree with what you stated about the bakers, made alfie pile on the pounds.n Now feed royal canin which keeps him at a good weight and because i've only got one to feed for, and priced around here at about 39 pounds its all good for me x
I am with Jules on her 'hotch potch, little bit of this and that' diet way of feeding.
All of my dogs that I have had over the years that have been with our family as puppies have been fed on Meat and mixer, meat and complete and various scraps from our plates and we have had CKCS well know for their sensitivities, Rotties and of course Jack.
I think there is now such an overwhelming amount of dried complete food on the market that for a new to dogs puppy owner it can be a minefield, this also of course is a similar problem for those taking on an older dog, in fact, I am asked on every homecheck I do what they should feed their new addition.
____________ Natalie x
LAB LINK RESCUE Co ordinator and Forum Administrator for my sins
Jack, Molly & Maia, watched over by Tara Banana from the Bridge
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) nappy when you introduce a new food but that is part and parcel of developing their digestive system. I just feel pups aren't that much different. The more encounters with new foods they have from weaning, then the less likely they are to have intollerances, allergies and runny bum responses to new foods later on in life.
x
