The uric acid problem has long been with Dalmatians June, but not with Labradors. I'm sorry but this is a step too far. I will not test for a disease we do not have simply to make the genetic labs rich or to cover their research into the disease in other neumerically small breeds This test is not needed
I totally agree John - I did say that as far as I am aware it is not a problem in the labrador breed. Therefore there would be no reason at all for us to test for this
The only point I was making is that where a condition is particularly associated with a specific breed, then appropriate use should be made of available testing - in order to avoid ever getting into the situation where outcrossing could become the only way to deal with a problem.
However. I do have to disagree with regard to it being potentially life-threatening. My own dalmatian had urinary tract problems from being nine weeks old. He was on a veterinary recommended low-purine diet all his two-year life and was also on allopurinol. I home-tested his urine at least 3 times a week. He was frequently on anti-biotics for urinary infections caused by his bladder not emptying properly because of the presence of stones. He formed stones which were very painful for him to pass. Eventually a huge urate stone caused a total stoppage of urine and he was in agony. He had surgery to remove the stone (plus several smaller ones), peritonitis set in and he went into multi-organ failure. The veterinary hospital where the surgery was performed told me that they operated on an average of one dalmatian per week for this problem. So I do feel that this is an issue for that particular breed.
The uric acid problem has long been with Dalmatians June, but not with Labradors. I'm sorry but this is a step too far. I will not test for a disease we do not have simply to make the genetic labs rich or to cover their research into the disease in other neumerically small breeds This test is not needed
I totally agree John - I did say that as far as I am aware it is not a problem in the labrador breed. Therefore there would be no reason at all for us to test for this
The only point I was making is that where a condition is particularly associated with a specific breed, then appropriate use should be made of available testing - in order to avoid ever getting into the situation where outcrossing could become the only way to deal with a problem.
However. I do have to disagree with regard to it being potentially life-threatening. My own dalmatian had urinary tract problems from being nine weeks old. He was on a veterinary recommended low-purine diet all his two-year life and was also on allopurinol. I home-tested his urine at least 3 times a week. He was frequently on anti-biotics for urinary infections caused by his bladder not emptying properly because of the presence of stones. He formed stones which were very painful for him to pass. Eventually a huge urate stone caused a total stoppage of urine and he was in agony. He had surgery to remove the stone (plus several smaller ones), peritonitis set in and he went into multi-organ failure. The veterinary hospital where the surgery was performed told me that they operated on an average of one dalmatian per week for this problem. So I do feel that this is an issue for that particular breed.
But thankfully not for labradors
Im so sorry for what had happened to Sam. I think from what I can gather, that the urate urolthias is what is more the concern (particularly in Dalmations), as it seems the complications that can result, lead to organ failure. I had put (then deleted in my post as I hadnt wanted to probe you too much) was it an extreme case that had become complicated?. I can see from your recent reply that it certainly wasnt a straightforward maintain on a diet situation as many dogs and cats are (but still with check ups at vets).
I think having read up on the urate urolthias it is different to the cystine. The type of stone - cystine perhaps being easier to maintain and doesnt have the complication that the urate stone does.
Also I will apologise for putting "can cause pain" in the original post as I do know it IS painful to have stones that are causing a problem. this was an oversight.
I think I will be doing a little more "delving" on this one.
June ~ Thank you for giving more information - that must have been emotional "revisiting" that sad sad time.
Heidi
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: Cystine stones
Our wonderful black Labrador Clyde, had a painful operation to remove stones from his bladder and urethra three weeks ago. We got the results of the stone analysis a couple of days ago and we were told these were cystine stones. We have been told Clyde needs to go on to a prescription diet - Hills Science Plan U/D and this will help to prevent new stones from forming. After researching this condition, we are finding it quite frightening as it is clearly incurable without having drastic surgery. Even by being on a special diet and increasing his water intake there are no guarantees that this will prevent further stones from forming.
We came across this forum while we were searching for information on this condition in Labrador retrievers, as it appears cystinuria is rarely seen in this breed. We would be grateful for any information/experience/advice that anyone may have on this subject. we are also interested in making our own food for Clyde, so if anyone knows of any suitable recipes please post.
I think if you look up 'bladder stones' in dogs you'd find quite a lot of information. As far as I remember there are 2 different kinds: the ones that will dissolve and the ones that wont.
I had a bitch which was diagnosed with bladder stones when she was about 2 years old and after doing the test it was confirmed that they were the ones that could be dissolved. She went on the Science Hills U/D too but the real only difference with this feed compared to normal feed is that it's very salty - I tasted it and it's obviously to try and encourage the dog to drink. After using up the bag and the stones seemed under control, she went back on her normal diet and stayed on that one until the day she died.
Some recommend to add cider vinegar to every feed which I also did for some time but most importantly, I made sure she was kept very active because that in its self encourage the dog to drink - it's all about trying to keep the urine acidity on the high side and the stones will stay away.
It worked for my dog and she never had any again but it may not work for your dog if your dog has got the non-dissolveable ones...
Natasha
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WLF All the Way!!!!
"Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you canīt eat it or hump it. **** on it and walk away..."
Or is it like EIC - apparently big in the breed but no-one I know if has ever seen it?
No, it's not big in Labradors. Yes, cases can crop up in any breed, but the breed with big problems is Dalmatians, In March this year the KC announced in the Gazette, a plan to tackle it by using Dalmatian/Pointer crosses, with certain provisos on the registering of the resultant pups. But I must say, from what I hear from my Dalmatian friends the idea has not gone down a bundle in some quarters. But it is and will happen.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject: Cystine stones
Sorry I took so long to reply, Clyde had to go back in for another operation as the last one did not work! They have made him another hole to pass urine through. Anyway I am still looking for dietary advice as the Hills U/D is very expensive and not guaranteed to prevent his stones from forming again. At the moment I am feeding him a small amount of fresh chicken mixed in with Wafcol complete vegetarian dog food (moistened with warm water). Any suggestions for a good brand of complete dog food, in comparison to Hills U/D would be much appreciated.
My Dalmatian friends are saying encourage plenty of drinking, because this both dilutes the urine, but also flushes it through before it has time to form crystals.
Food should be low in protein and meat, high in veg content such as Potatoes, peas, beans, (but not spinach) pasta and the like. BARF diets which comprise largely of meat are a big no no! Really, your options are a prepared prescription food such as the Hills prescription or Royal Canin Renal which I don't think you need a prescription for (so could be cheaper), or prepare your own food, along with the problem of balancing the diet, which would not be easy.
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