Hi folks, I've been reading this thread with great interest as many of the points raised sound very familiar.
Oscar is 12wks old & we've had him for 2wks.
We've tried doing everything the books suggest, but he absolutely hated his crate from the outset, he wouldn't go in it of his own free will & he whined non-stop the entire night for the first 4 nights(!), so we've now got a 5ft square pen in the kitchen.
We've cracked the nightime, establishing a routine of letting him out around 10.30pm and then he's let out at 1am and 4am before getting up at 6am. He's always a bit vocal when he goes in, but he's pretty much quiet through the night.
Our problem is the morning period, he's on his own from 9am to 12pm but when we come home at lunchtime, it's guarenteed he will have soiled his pen and he's subsequently trashed (and got poo over) everything inside - his bed, rug, water bowl, as well as any newspaper in there being shredded.
We stagger our lunch hours to give 2hrs coverage between 12-2pm but whoever is back first is spending the entire duration cleaning up the carnage. he's allowed outside as he pleases while we're there and interestingly he isn't soiling in the afternoon period.
We've been doing the low volume radio, ticking clock, DAP infuser, stuffed kong but this doesn't stop the morning carnage.
He always has his breakfast by 6.15 and always has a poo and multiple wees before we leave at 9am. He's currently on quarter of a tray of Wainwrights with a handful of Hills dry puppy food, which isthe same as his breeder was feeding him. He then has 75g of dry at lunchtime.
Any advice or guidance would be greatfully received.
They are dirty little whatnots some of them. Its pretty normal for *some* pups to take this stance. The 'i'm soiling where the hell I like and not reading the same books YOU are reading, Mum They are MEANT to not soil their own area....right...? Wrong! A select few seem to almost REVEL in it then do paw painting everywhere else that WAS clean
Well personally at his age i'd have him on 3 meals of dry kibble with a little boiling water. I'm not sure the wet stuff doesn't make them rather splodgy. I use wainwrights dry complete for ne of my dogs and can't recommend it highly enough... At his age I would probably give him around 120gms per meal of dry. Maybe slightly less.
The fact he has a pen is half your problem, but I understand why. A crate is not for every dog. With a pen he has room to shift about and do some serious moving, hence 'motion making poo' One of the things about a crate is that they are confined, and so don't shift about overly much and don't 'stir their loins' nearly as much.
You might actually be better, if your kitchen is safe and confined, scrapping the pen, and having paper by the door for a time to catch all this waste. Also then means its not all over him, his toys, the bedding etc etc that it is when penned.
Paper is not a means to an end but it will make cleaning up basically easier, even if he misses it with every second poo its still further away from his feet I also think penning them when they are messy ones who poo happily in their own space can cause some dogs to start poo eating. They are bored, it is there...and they think....'why not! Lets give it a go!' and usually like it...
Just some thoughts as a short term thing. he will clean up in time, but not all pups are naturally clean sadly. I've owned MANY of them
Di
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Restrict the amount of space he has got to enough to stretch out and turn round in and see if that helps with the soiling! Once he has the idea that he's got to hold it in, you can go back to letting him use the pen. He will get the idea, honest!
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Just got my new wee black lab two nights ago. We have found the last two nights really bad! She is happy happy all day long and then the crate is closed and she cried so much she was sick. We did not go down to her, as we have been advised to let her work it out.
After reading on, we are going to have a go at the crate in the bedroom. Having only one crate at the moment we will lift it down in the morning, and try to be more postive with it, as she has not really been in it all day, sleeping on a blanket by the fire and at our feet.
I am concerned that we have been building her up to not be able to be without us!
I love Joules to bits and am so keen to get it right, I think it's perhaps not helping! What do you guys think?
Thankyou for all your wonderful posts!
I am currently on a waiting list for my first ever lab. My puppy is expected to be born in a few days. I am soooo excited! For the last 6 months I have been doing lots and lots of reading! One of the things I have been really wondering about is whether to train with a crate or not but after reading all your posts that is definitely the path I am going to take! It sounds like a much easier and more successful option to take. And I love the idea of splitting the crate in half! That makes total sense! Sure beats having to buy a second one as soon as it outgrows the first!
Hubbacat
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: Ruby and the Crate(s)
This article really helped me so much, I didnt use a crate with our previous dogs and thought when I saw them that they looked barbaric. Ruby has totally accepted her crate. I bought a large one for the kitchen and she sleeps in it at night and takes herself off to it when she wants time out from me! The first night in it she cried and then the second night she cried less and the third night was bliss. I put her in it after her last garden time at 11pm. I set the alarm for 2:30am and we do garden time again and then she goes straight back in until hubby gets up at 6am and takes her to the garden again. We have had three accidents in the house but thats all and they were all my fault - telephone, cooking and computing were my distractions and she was a silent pee-er. I have bought a smaller crate for the car as I cant contain her safely any other way and want to get her back in the car so she gets used to the motion. She is 9 and a half weeks now and I just cant wait for our walks to start.
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I wonder if you could give me some advice, for the first couple of nights I slept not far from the crate, the first night she had me up at 2am and 6am - not bad I thought. The next night was every hour!! And I took her out everytime only to find she only went to toilet twice! Once at 12am and not again till 6am!! So I was advised after taking her out for last toilet time put her in the crate, leave the tv on low, put towel over crate, turn light off and shut the door. So that's what I did she barked for about 2 hours whin I was told would get less as the time goes on, she then barked at 4am but I left her and sure enough when I got up it was quiet and on letting her out in the morning her crate was dry so we have done this since last Monday and she is always dry in the morning and the barking is less when we put her to bed say 10-15mins but she still continues to wake and bark at 4 then occasionally at 6? (I usually put her to bed about 11:30/12 and get up at 7) it's obvious she can hold it and people have said they never got up with their pups in the night, so is she barking cause shes bored? I want a full nights sleep one day!!
I know how you feel Bellatrix for the first few nights I hardly slept a wink how old is your pup? my Harvey is 8 weeks he also tends to bark at about 3 or fourish I tend to give him his supper at about nine and he will go to bed at about 12 so it gives him time to do his business outside i'm afraid there isn't much advice I can give you as i'am completely new to this but I think the older your pup gets the easier it will be as they can hold it in longer
i'd say if the pup is dry during the night, she's likely to be just barking for attention and she might be a bit lonely as its not that long since she had lots of litter mates for company.
Tv or radio on low is a good thing, also you can get puppy heat pads to pop in the crate for warmth. Make sure the crate is not in a drafty spot as that may be waking the pups in the early morning
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Love this post!! very helpful...
Whiskey is 12 weeks now... and we have tried house training without a crate but i dread coming home from work to see what state the kitchen is in!!
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They are MEANT to not soil their own area....right...? Wrong! 
She is happy happy all day long and then the crate is closed and she cried so much she was sick. We did not go down to her, as we have been advised to let her work it out.
