Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: Mega confused now!
Someone please explain to me, because I'm feeling like I'm the only one not in on the big secret here?!!!
So,...it's wrong with a capital 'W' to start seriously training a pup too young (eg until 6 months), so how come pups who have had no serious training until, say 6 or 7 months can suddenly be competing and doing rather well at 9 or 10 months of age? What on earth are you doing in that 2-3 month slot between it being too young and then being at competition standard?? Even if you have a good recall, reasonable heelwork and the stop, how do you then cram blinds, directions, go backs, walk-ups, distractions, etc into that teeny space of time? I've seen dogs at training who are around a year old and have already done puppy tests and doing them very well...... how can that be????!
I'm almost clawing at the computer screen to know the answer! I've always thought of training a pup as building up slowly on exercises and gradually introducing new things over time but it seems that, in this crazy, ol' gundogging world, pups go from 0-60 in about 2 weeks! Is there some big secret that you aren't telling? Are you all so flippin darn good that you can pick up an un-trained 6 month old and teach it everything it needs to know about gundogging in one easy session? Aaaagggghhhhh!!!!!
<<heads off to start rocking and dribbling in the corner!!!>>
is that a set rule not to train them before 6 months, or is that only on the field trials, sorry if im being a bit dense,
Do they say that due to there young bones with all the jumping etc etc, but surely wouldnt the dogs be better if you was able to train them from 8 weeks old so they have the basics
sorry if im going in the completly wrong direction, do apologise if i have
I must admit that is something I wondered considering we started with Theo at 7 months old and at 9 months although we have made some progress he is nowhere near competition standard.
i'm guessing the kind of folks that don't touch the pup till they are six months are the kind that have there dogs kenneled.
You couldn't in good conscience live with a dog in the house and not have rules and there for learning of rules!
There are things though that are pointless cracking on with until the pups a bit older and more confident, but thats specific to each dog. You could well have your pup doing something at 5 months... that it looses the condifence in doing at 10 months.... and that would be soul destroying for the dog.
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Allan here, I know and from what i've read in the past that Di is hinting towards you taking it slowly with mouse. All I can say is that from my own oppinion and experience, she is correct to try and pass this advice on to you.
At the end of the day nobody knows there own kennel better, than those that have spent the time and commitment learning about their own dogs and their breeding.
I for one have learnt alot from handling 'Jade' these past two years and it has helped me work how best to train her son. (Fish)(Mainly not to over do it and make him flat)
With regards to 'Fish' and his training, I can only report the following:
I have geared his training to suit his attitude and overhaul outlook on life, something i personally feel couldn't even be figured out until the dog is at least 6 months old and had sometime to develop.
I started Fish's training at approximatly this age, (obviously simple commands like 'Sit' for example were introduced alot earlier). My training sessions are 15 to 20mins maximum each outing.
He is 10months old now and we are working on memory backs over longer distances down a track to encourage the natural enthusiasm that exist's. I am yet to introduce handling (left or Rights) or the stop whistle which obviously goes with the handling.
I am taking it slowly with 'Fish' mainly because I feel that this is the age where the dog/bitch should be figuring things out for themselves and not becoming to reliant on their handler, above all it should be 'FUN' for the dogs.
I decided to enter the UGS 'Fun day' as a spur of the moment thing, as it just so happened I finished work early on Saturday and was able to attend. Obviously I entered knowing it would be a bit of fun and knowing full well that my dog doesn't handle yet or stop on the whistle. But hey, he's 10 months, so I don't care! It was encouraging more than anything to see that what effort had been put in, in the last four months has had the desired effect so far.
I will continue to train Fish gradually over the coming months, happy in the knowledge that taking it slowly seems to be the right way to play it with my puppy.
This is only my view and at the end of the day, it is a case of whatever works. All i can say is that handling a dog that trots for you because it's bored of the whole damn thing is far worse than waiting that little while longer to end up with a dog that lives for it, for life!!
Regards
Allan
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
The Great Computer God was clearly displeased with me for a while and, after I'd got my little outburst out of my system, the computer said "no", lost connection and wouldn't let me back on until I'd gone for a nice walk, bought a new packet of fags, poured another XXL G&T and told me to go away and not come back until I could be nice!!
Sooo....Ok Al, I can see what you are saying and it only goes to highlight my novice-ish-ness (is that a word?!) I feel so left-behind and so bloomin 'old' to be starting something so new when there is so much to learn and so many billion mistakes to make and a trillion more just waiting in the wings to leap out and grab me just when I think I might be getting a handle on it all. Why wasn't I born and bred in a khaki-baby-grow and bought my first Field-Trial bred lab for a christening present? It's so frustrating to be trying to listen and read and go to classes, trying to figure everything out about a whole new way of dog-training when my elderly-braincells are reducing faster than house-prices.
I'm just reeling in shock/admiration/the pure ballsiness of entering a 'Funday' anything with a pup that isn't fully, totally, 100% and then some- trained because I thought that Khaki-folk took it all absolutely poker-faced seriously and that they'd make little staw-dolls of people who came along, entered and maybe ballsed it up, to burn at their 'funday-barbeque' later in the day
Thank-you for explaining your reasoning and logic, and taking the time to try and explain to 'Mrs-she's-off-on-one-again'! I don't think I'm ever going to understand the whole khaki-malarky scene as I seem to have been born without a khaki-gene in my body (darn my Towny-genetics!) but me and my sluggish pair of wanna-be gundogs will continue to enjoy being bewildered by it all.
Just to emphasise to GStuart and Goldiesgirl and so on, we aren't here, on this thread talking about 'training' as in sit, stay, come, heel - the basics of every dogs good manners. YES absolutely! That starts at 8 weeks or before.
We are talking taking training further (and I know the use of the word 'training' makes it a bit broad spectrum but we 'presume' the basics are taught) and moving on towards specific gundog training work.
That was what becs was concerned about, and that was what Allan was saying 'look, we haven't moved on as much as you think, its just the basics are sound (which allowed him to have a bash at a fundog working test and do reasonably well with our 10 month old) and now at ten months we stretch on a little to be more demanding from here on in...'
I hope that is a bit clearer. Its impossible to think of a dog of any age above 8 weeks NOT being taught the basics of good manners, kennelled or otherwise. Its the ore specific nitty gritty handling, retrieving, controlled hunting, extra additional commands work we now debate here....
I have these visions of folks thinking gundogs don't sit and come when they are called till they are six months old, and thats just not the case.
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Just to emphasise to GStuart and Goldiesgirl and so on, we aren't here, on this thread talking about 'training' as in sit, stay, come, heel - the basics of every dogs good manners. YES absolutely! That starts at 8 weeks or before.
We are talking taking training further (and I know the use of the word 'training' makes it a bit broad spectrum but we 'presume' the basics are taught) and moving on towards specific gundog training work.
That was what becs was concerned about, and that was what Allan was saying 'look, we haven't moved on as much as you think, its just the basics are sound (which allowed him to have a bash at a fundog working test and do reasonably well with our 10 month old) and now at ten months we stretch on a little to be more demanding from here on in...'
I hope that is a bit clearer. Its impossible to think of a dog of any age above 8 weeks NOT being taught the basics of good manners, kennelled or otherwise. Its the ore specific nitty gritty handling, retrieving, controlled hunting, extra additional commands work we now debate here....
I have these visions of folks thinking working gundogs don't sit and come when they are called till they are six months old, and thats just not the case.
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
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I've always thought of training a pup as building up slowly on exercises and gradually introducing new things over time but it seems that, in this crazy, ol' gundogging world, pups go from 0-60 in about 2 weeks! Is there some big secret that you aren't telling? Are you all so flippin darn good that you can pick up an un-trained 6 month old and teach it everything it needs to know about gundogging in one easy session? Aaaagggghhhhh!!!!!
It's so frustrating to be trying to listen and read and go to classes, trying to figure everything out about a whole new way of dog-training when my elderly-braincells are reducing faster than house-prices.
