Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: Chesters progress
Thought I would do a quick little update on how we are getting on..
After dipping our toes in a few tests (special puppy/ndnh), it highlighted a few of our 'problems' so with much regret!!! I bit my lip and took the advice I was given, and pulled out of any future tests, to knuckle down with training..
Well, I think I have cracked the steadyness problem! and I have somehow created another, and that is checking in when being sent on blinds.. I think this is down to how I set up the blinds, normally in an upside down L shape, and therefore requires a stop and a left/right.. I am hoping to see someone at the end of the week to help me with this in person. I think I moved on to quickly from the straight line blinds, as he was running out no problems, so moved onto a more difficult set up, and clearly not ready, so need to back track a bit.
He is improving all the time, and am so happy with him, I thought I would share a few videos clips of his training, nothing special, and a bit messy due to the checking in business and me shouting get on get on! .. but we are not perfect.. (yet! )
Really pleased to hear that things are progressing well Suzy and all power to you girl for knuckling down and going back to the groundwork that is necessary in order to succeed in tests.
It is interesting for me to see the video and obviously you will get your advice from your trainer.
If he were mine I would stop all stop whistles and handling and get him back to whizzing out at speed on marks and memories again. Darcy is the worlds worst dog (or the worst dog I have ever had ) for checking with me, so I have trained her slightly differently to my others.
I do not really train blinds (shock horror ). Everyone on here seems quite obsessed with rushing onto blinds with there dogs but I just do more and more memories and delay them for longer and longer. Until finally they are so delayed they become a blind. Does that make sense? It works for her in that I have sort of kidded her into not losing her confidence and checking with me that she's getting things right. It does still creep back in though especially after a competition or two, and each time it does I go back to the straightforward marks and memories again to get her speed up.
Since watching the vids myself, I need to put my whistle away! Also agree, stop blinds, and go back to memories and marks, and hopefully can get him running straight out without checking.. and will also delay the memories for longer aswell, thanks
Its getting annoying now, hence my 'get on man'!! but will do as suggested, and hope it sorts it out.
Was so glad I took the advice to pull out of the tests, as I am getting more confidence in him so hopefully, I won't be a bag of nerves when I hear those scary words next 'ok, take the lead off'
I see him getting better and better all the time, and now I look back at when I entered my first test, and wondered how on earth we got through it!
oh, and we are inbetween trainers at the minute! Hence I have lost my direction over the last few weeks! Not sure what to do next!
I only watched part of the video and without sound (at work) and one things that struck me was how hesitant he looked.
I think that, besides the points that Jill has already mentioned, you are going wrong in the basic setup of your training.
You mention that on blinds he always checks because you do you blinds normally in an L-shape. To me, this is a basic mistake that so many (novice) trainers make, they try to learn something new or make the exercise a bit more difficult but then they focus too much on that part alone.
F.e. What do you want your dog to do when you send him for a blind? I want him to run in a straight line, over obstacles if necessary until I give him his hunt command or, if necessary, re-direct him should he have diverted from the line I give him.
So, in my training I will be focusing on that. Put out a blind, send him in a straight line to it and if necessary re-direct him if he diverted from the line I gave him.
Obviously I also want to teach him to go left or right after I stop him on a blind, but I will do that maybe once out of 10 or 15 retrieves I set him up for. This way I can train it, yet he keeps going out in confidence and with speed because he does not associate me sending him out with stopping and re-directing again.
The same when introducing the stop whistle in retrieves. Only whistle once every 10 or 15 retrieves or you dog will start anticipating the stop whistle and his speed will go down together with his confidence.
In training, train the exceptions, but keep the standard as the standard.
Thanks Dave, I agree that I have over used the stop whistle, and gone on too far since watching the videos myself.
Yes, I want him to run out in a straight line until he either winds it, or hears from me again to help him out.. but as yet, he has to double check with me that I want him to carry on.
So I will stop blinds for now, and replace with memories as Jill has suggested, and increase the distances very slowly so he can get some confidence back into him.
When you say he looks hesitant, do you mean him checking in with me, or in general?
As said I looked at the video without sound so I can't really judge when you are whistling and when the dog is checking on his own but, I would say it is both.
If you look at your vid around second 40, a mark is thrown (I guess, I don't actually see anything flying but I guess it's a mark since the camera goes up) and you send your dog. The dog goes out confidently. Fast forward to 1min 15sec. You line your dog up for a blind and send him. The dog has no idea what he is supposed to do, he goes out a few metres because he wants to show that he obeys you, but he is clueless of what you want him to do after those few metres.
However, don't panic, by doing what Jill has described before you should get this back on track in no time.
I know everybody has a different opinion, but to me the key to success is success. If you set your exercises up so that the dog gets success very easily, he will learn a lot faster. Afterwards you can gradually increase difficulty.
If you see a sign of hesitation in your dog or if he anticipates your next move it means that your training is going of track, take a step back, re-think and take it from there.
Darcy is the worlds worst dog (or the worst dog I have ever had ) for checking with me, so I have trained her slightly differently to my others. .
Can I join the club with Barney too please?
Some excellent advice on here from Jill and Dave and I for one will be following it too . Keep up the good work Suzy. Sorry no sound on my PC still so am finding it hard to understand the situation fully.
Hi Suzy, Chester's coming on grand, isn't he? He comes back to you with the dummy at a cracking pace (says she, thinking how Zorro strolls back, swinging the dummy like a handbag from the corner of his mouth! )
I'm just thinking about one of the exercises that we've been doing in class lately, to get the dog running out confidently and then stopping and sending it out at right angles:-
The trainer throws a 'mark' up the path and we send the dog to retrieve it. On the way back, the trainer sets a blind in exactly the same place.
We then send the dog back up to the blind, which it does confidently as it's already retrieved a dummy from that spot. As the dog is returning to the handler, the trainer lays a blind at right angles from the original spot.
We send the dog again and it runs out confidently to the same spot as the last 2 dummies, but we stop the dog there, and then send him out to the blind at right angles from the spot where the other 2 dummies had been.
My trainer goes to great lengths to explain that there has to be a trust between the handler and dog so that, when we blow the stop whistle, the dog knows it's because we can 'help' it to get onto the dummy, and not that we are hindering it or confusing it.
I don't know if this is of any use, but it got Zorro setting off confidently on a 'go back' on a blind. (I still think he thinks I'm more of a hinderence than a help to him....and he's probably right!)
The other thing that I couldn't work out from the vid is, when Chester has gone out of sight on the camera when you have sent him 'out', you whistle him back. Can you see that he has the dummy, or are you just guessing that he should have found it, and why are you whistling him when he comes back so quickly anyway? I'm just wondering how necessary it is (and thinking that I do the same thing when, having watched the vid, maybe it isn't needed!)
Suzy, you have the opposite dog to me, Basil doesn't check in so much as just run on confident his super nose will find it, when I try setting up L blinds (I like that term!) he often scents it because i set them up badly, we have yet to get that trust that Dave mentions of him realising i can help not hinder. Memories are so much easier to set up anyway when you train alone
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why are you whistling him when he comes back so quickly anyway? I'm just wondering how necessary it is (and thinking that I do the same thing when, having watched the vid, maybe it isn't needed!)
I never whistle Basil in when we train alone.
But in class I find myself hollering 'good lad' as he picks and then tooting him back in....al un-necessary but i suppose i'm anxious he might *not* do it and feel i should be doing something
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). Everyone on here seems quite obsessed with rushing onto blinds with there dogs but I just do more and more memories and delay them for longer and longer. Until finally they are so delayed they become a blind. Does that make sense? It works for her in that I have sort of kidded her into not losing her confidence and checking with me that she's getting things right. It does still creep back in though especially after a competition or two, and each time it does I go back to the straightforward marks and memories again to get her speed up.
but will do as suggested, and hope it sorts it out.
