Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: Whats the next step?Couple more questions - please?
I have been soooo good this week! I have NOT rushed things, I have NOT been whalloping dummies into the undergrowth and then had to go and find them myself ( ) I have resisted all temptation to do anything but teeny-weeny baby steps when practicing 'backs' - how willing a pupil am I eh?!!! <<proud smirk!>>
So now we're getting rather nice 'backs'. What I have been doing is dropping a dummy without Zorro seeing it, sitting him about 30 yards or so ahead of it, walking on about another 20 yards on my own, and then sending him back for it. Yesterday I had the shock of my life when Zorro actually broke into a run on the way back to me with the dummy! Woah there you Ol' Gundog!
And I've been practicing directions, but only doing one dummy as Zorro was so dreadfully sluggish when I was doing both sides with 2 dummies.
So can I go onto the next thing now? What I'm fancying having a bash at is where you send the dog back, stop it and then send it to the left or rigt, but I'm hazzarding a guess that there are about a billion other little baby-steps before I do that? I don't start proper training with a trainer again until the middle of March and I would like to keep the momentum going. Can I have some sensible, slow-down-girl, training exercises please to stop me from making my own up and making a right pig's ear of it again?
Much appreciated,
Becs and The Gang
Last edited by Becs on Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total
One of the exercises I do to sharpen up my stop whistle is let the dog run round (I say 'get on' - a sort of 'at ease' command). When he's away from me (but not too far, in case I have to run after him!) I blow the whistle to stop him. Then I tell him to 'get on', and then blow the whistle again. At the 2nd or 3rd 'stop', providing if it's a good 'stop', I then throw a dummy for him to retrieve as a reward. If he hasn't stopped well I go out and get him and put him back on the spot where he should've stopped and blow the whistle to reinforce . It is a nice, easy and effective exercise.
The other thing you could also do, if you haven't already, is sharpen up his hunting and understanding of the 'hunt command'. So strategically place some dummys or tennis balls in cover before you begin your training. Take him very near to the spot and give him your command to hunt. You want to get him to start holding an area when you tell him to hunt. With every training session you can gradually increase the distance between the hidden dummy and where you send him from if you like. Vary the type of cover too, get his nose working overtime for you. Start imagining yourself on a shoot. The bird could've fallen on a log, down a ditch, in a puddle, deep in the longest grass imaginable, on your head even (that once happened to my friend).
How about practising how you line him up for retrieves too? So have two or even three, if he's a clever clogs, marked retrieves one straight ahead and one at a right angle. Line him up good and proper and send him in turn for each one and don't accept it if he goes for the wrong one (you need a good stop whistle though, just in case).
There's also memory retrieves. Very useful for getting the dog used to longer distances. Drop a dummy as you're walking him to heal. Make sure he sees it, then walk some distance, practice a bit of fancy heal work at the same time. Then line him up and send him for the dummy. Gradually increase the distance and be ready to be amazed at how good he his at remembering where it is. Later on, when you're feeling confident, you can also throw a distraction dummy to the right or left of you before you send him etc
There are loads more. I'm sure others he will reply. Lots though will require you having the basics in good order
You could drop the dummy walk with the dog at heel 20 yds, sit the dog down, you carry on another 20 yds, turn and face the dog and call him in. When he gets half way blow the stop whistle and raise your hand. If he stops straight away send him back for the retrieve, if he does not, put him back in the spot he was when you blew the whistle, give him a small scruff, re-enforce the whistle. Then go back to your origanal position. Blow the whistle again with hand raised. Then return to dog, and start all over again. The key is when he stops on the whistle, send him back for the retrieve.
I find that works very well, as the dog is usually keen to get back to the retrieve so they are more inclined to stop. Do it at a short distance at first and build up.
I think you’ve been given some great things to work on there.
In my opinion before you can really get on to stopping and redirecting, he really wants his drive and hunting working on. Helen’s suggestion for working on his stop whistle separately is a good one. It’s much better at this stage to practise his stop whistle with no retrieve being involved, other than maybe as a reward. I think it would be better for someone who can see him working to tell you when he is ready for you to introduce the stop whistle into his retrieving.
I really like memory retrieves! I still do loads of these with my young Open trial dog, because they really encourage confidence in the dog. You start really extending the distance and difficulty of terrain. Increase the difficulty very gradually as you want him to be successful each time.
Increase the level of difficulty of his marks. He needs to be hunting for the dummy rather than just going and picking it up for you.
Thank you so much- I do appreciate the advice and I can see where I need to be heading towards a bit more clearly now. I shall make careful and detailed notes of all the suggestions, let Zorro have a peruse at them too(!), and then plan out what we shall try to do over the next few weeks.
I'm going to waffle on in a proud manner now, because if I waffle on about training at home then my family get that glazed expression and edge away, but I'm reall VERY CHUFFED with Zorro, and it's all down to the advice I'm getting from you khaki-folk!
I've just come back from a really good training session with Zorro, where I tried out the suggestions given and, blow me down with a feather, it seems that Zorro has been reading this thread too as he really surprised and delighted me by being tons better than I thought he'd be.
We practiced the stop whistle, as suggested by Helen, and he was really good at it. He does tend to sometimes lie down on the stop, but then that goes back to him doing send-aways in obedience, so I guess it's understandable, and I don't suppose it matters that much, does it?
And then I did Helen's suggestion of throwing dummies out to the front and at right angles and lining him up to retrieve the selcted one, and he could do that ever so well. (I did get a bit carried away and tried 3 at a time, but he was rather excellent at it, and had no problems getting them each in the order I asked him to)
So then I did Ian's 'backs and stops' exercise, and again, Zorro really did well, and stopped and went back with me being quite a distance in front of him. So that chuffed me loads.
Couple of questions though (if you don't mind me asking, please) On one of the straight forward 'backs, Zorro veered to the right and went in a diagonal away from me, and so then couldn't see the dummy, so I stopped him, and then did my 'go out' and arm signal-thingy to send him in the right direction, which he did, and found the dummy. SO I was well pleased as we hadn't done this before, and he did it nicely, but then I thought that maybe he shouldn;t have gone out at the wrong angle anyway, so should I have stopped him at that point, called him back to me and made him run back straighter? He does sometimes go a bit outwards instead of straight. Should I be doing something to train him to go back straighter and if so , how? I think that because he's facing me, and then has to turn around, he doesn't always go the full 180 degrees, so goes off at a bit of a tangent.
The other thing that we're having an issue with, is that when I throw a dummy into cover, Zorro often goes straight over it and then sticks his nose into everything else but the dummy. He has always loved 'mousing' as I call it, and it's something that we've always made a game of before now. But now I want him to concentrate and fetch the dummy, his mind wanders! I'm practicing the 'hunt' by scattering a few bits of kibble in the grass and getting him to sniff it out. How can I get him to do the same for the dummies?
And one last thing, I guess what I do now is just keep practicing the things that we're doing, but gradually increase the distances and try and make it all sharper? I have to just say though, that Zorro is now FREQUENTLY breaking into a run when he's retrieving, which is massively encouraging!
Thanks-you, thank-you, thankyou, if you've read this far!
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) I have resisted all temptation to do anything but teeny-weeny baby steps when practicing 'backs' - how willing a pupil am I eh?!!! <<proud smirk!>>
Woah there you Ol' Gundog! 
I suppose I've just answered my question! <<slinks back off to practice stop-whistle!>>
