MattA99  Offline
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Brilliant thread!
I find myself strongly agreeing with Di's thoughts whilst at the same time maintaining a fairly significant 'but' in my thoughts.
Absolutely there are different types of dogs that all need different training techniques and different handling methods. Some just need the 'trigger pulling' and others need a lot of pushing and encouragement. I've got four working age dogs at the moment and they are all very different.
However, one thing I would say is to keep in mind the dual factors of drive and confidence. They can look very much like the same thing, but I would suggest in many cases the apparant 'drive' exhibited by a dog is as much a result of the training techniques used to build the dogs confidence than any natural tendency on the part of the dog.
A dog with nothing but drive will still probably run up and down a fence rather than get over it, whereas the dog that has had his confidence gradually and methodically built up will be more likely to hop straight over and look like he has all the drive in the world.
If a dog seems sticky, my inclination is to focus the training on building the confidence more than trying to drive him harder. I do think that many people try and do too many blinds that their dogs don't have the trained confidence to achieve comfortably.
I do think in a great many cases (but by no means all) a dogs apparant lack of drive on blinds and jumps compared to other dogs, is often more a result of the dogs having less experience and practise of that particular exercise.
Matt
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rach_willibob Offline
Its all Gundog
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thats a great point Matt - very interesting and definitely something to bear in mind 
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MattA99 Offline
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Just thought I'd chip in an example of the kind of confidence I'm referring to and how it can be developed which might be of some use.
Once a dog has got the concept of memory and blind retrieves, I try and really develop the dogs confidence of doing blinds under difficult circumstances.
So I look around the training ground and try and imagine a fairly spectacular retrieve that I would love the dog to do. So lets say we want the dog to make a really long blind retrieve over a jump. Now it may be that he can already do the retrieve but perhaps with quite a bit of handling. However, I dont want him to just do the retrieve, I want him to absolutely nail it! I want him to make every yard of that retrieve 100% knowing where he is going.
So I will perhaps use the the whole training session (or maybe a few training sessions) to make that retrieve happen.
First I'll take him to the fence and give him a straightforward retrieve over the jump. I want to make sure that he is absoloutely confident of the jump and will not progress until he is.
Then we throw the retrieve over the jump and take him progressively further away from the jump all the time sending him back. Ideally I want every retrieve to be absolutely perfect - if its not them I stretching him too quickly.
Once I have got the dog doing the retrieve to the standard I want as a simple 'go back' I can then start to gradually start pushing the level of distraction and difficulty.
Time delays increase the difficulty and so does sending him out for a simple mark or two before giving him the 'big' retrieve. The idea is to get the dog fully used to pulling off the retrieve completely unaided. The one long, diffcult retrieve has been broken down into smaller segments that the dog has complete confidence in.
There are other variables that you can add in perhaps leaving the dog sitting on the way back so that you give him a 'go back' from a distance. You can use this element to simulate handling him out to the retrieve without him needing to be struggling first.
All the time I'm looking for a really clean retrieve from the dog, I desperately don't want him to have to struggle during this exercise. Do this on a number of different scenarios and you hopefully start to have a dog brimming in confidence. The level of benefit varies with each dog, but i do find that some handlers habitually seem to have dogs that don't have confidence on tricky retrieves and it often has more to do with their training techniques than the dogs themselves.
I think there is a lot of benefit in continuing to do quite a lot of memory go backs compared to the number of blinds. I do loads, and if possible I try and make sure that there is some form of obstacles on the way to the retrieve; fences, ditches, hedges, water, cover. Success builds confidence, and even if a dog is unsure on a retrieve they'll tend to revert to what they are familiar with.
Matt
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Blypark  Offline
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I agree 100 o/o.
Can I also point out the merit of making the distance between your self and the dummy longer. In other words, when first teaching long distance blinds, you get further and further away and the dummy stays in the same place. This builds up confidence in the dog, believing you when you send off the arm.
As time goes on and the dog improves, then, I start to keep changing it around so that the dog never knows what I am going to ask it to do, to stop anticipation.
On water, I tend to do a lot of ''over' the other side, before a 'get in',
Sherry
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