Protein and growth - Q for Burns ?

Basil · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:49 am Post subject:

Personally I have given up with the 'nutritional helpline'

If i could have fed the Canine extra I think I would have for the 6 - 12 month teenage growth.
The alternative dry foods here aren't very good and at 28%+ protein and 20%+ fat they seemed the other end of the scale to burns, so rightly or wrongly i stuck with it..........until they stopped selling burns here and now we have braved a raw diet as a stop gap Smile

Basil · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:54 am Post subject:

BBB · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:08 am Post subject:

Thats interesting, I wonder if the 'potential' for bone development stays within the dog way outside the normal 18-24 month fully grown stage....and only gets realised when the right amount of protein is consumed??

There must be someone on here with a degree in diet and nutrition/ genetics that can enlighten us?

Basil · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:26 am Post subject:

I really wouldn't have a clue but would be interested to know a conclusive expert view on it.
My OH seems to think that his potential would be reached regardless of us still feeding burns or not- just at a much slower rate with a low protein diet.

I've looked on the internet a bit but as usual different info can be contradictory.
Mainly the suggestion is that if a dog wasn't getting the optimum level of protein then yes it would 'catch up' growth wise when protein is increased.
But I'm not sure that Burns would cause a protein defficiency as such as it is a quality food. I would think protein deficiency is more likely to be relevant in strays Confused

One website suggests 17% + protein would be the level that does not inhibit growth.
I guess it's about getting it right for the individual dog - as surplus protein is converted to energy.

Feebarn · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:33 am Post subject:

the other consideration as well is the attainability of the protein.... now I get all confused about this.... and i kind of switch off a little... but there is a difference in some foods in the way that the body can access that protein. Some foods stuffs have a high protein percentage, but its not necessarily attainable.... don't ask me why thats the wooly bit for me.

I believe Burns to be of the highly attainable type......i do wish I had listend more to the woman that was talking about it... but she droned on and on and I started to filter! Embarassed

Basil · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:39 am Post subject:

yes, your right - the protein in burns is more digestible than some types of protein. But then i read that on their website Rolling Eyes

It really is a quality food i think and i was very happy with it, until I stopped and have seen a very noticeable growth spurt.
Maybe it is just pure coincidence - in any case once he's grown now, he won't shrink back will he? Laughing

I am still keen to see some more big broad dogs who eat burns and always have though - I don't know if it's leaner, finer boned types who are fed it or if feeding it produces leaner, finer boned types - chicken or egg? Confused

On a similar note, I have recently noticed that raw fed dogs tend to be very tall and broad boned Confused

GillnRolo · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:57 am Post subject:

Rolo was fed Burns for the early part of his life because i was paranoid about him being an overfed fat lab.

But he was unhappy on it and looked underfed had no energy,as soon as i swapped him to something else he was a lovely energetic lab and much happier to.

My brother used to have an English bull terrier and he was told from him being young to feed him plenty of protein for bone growth.

Gill

charlotte85 · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:

Great thread, I'd be interested to know more about this as well. Gibson's been on Burns since we got her (came from the breeders on Pedigree Chum and was changed as soon as she'd settled) and seems quite small for her age compared to the couple of other puppies I've seen around. I'm not too bothered if she takes her time growing but since she's due to be changed to adult food in a couple of months it'd be nice to have a few opinions so I can decide whether to keep her on Burns or not.

Burns have a section on puppy growth in an e-book on their website, and it seems like the relatively low protein levels are intended to give slower growth:

http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/Burns_health_guide_ebook2005.pdf

"Breeders and owners love to see plump, roly-poly puppies because these seem to epitomise good health and proper care. In the same way, fat babies were once admired but this is now frowned on by health professionals.

In practice, more health problems result from over-nutrition than from lack of adequate nutrition. Although severe underfeeding will stunt growth, slight underfeeding will actually reduce health problems in adulthood.

There is undisputed evidence that a high intake of protein and fat during puppy-hood leads to health problems. Behavioural problems especially hyperactivity can often be attributed to the same cause. Skin problems which used to be seen mostly in older dogs now seem to be prevalent in young dogs also.

In spite of this, most proprietary pet foods for growth have very high levels of protein and fat and this is even promoted as a virtue. (The adverts may even say “The first ingredient is meat!”) The key to having a healthy puppy is to feed enough of a natural and easily digestible diet to ensure a slow rate of growth rather than for the puppy to shoot up. A puppy which grows slowly will still realise its growth potential but may take a little longer to reach full size." (Page 24)

Nobber · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject:

jack was on JWB until he was approx 4 months then started to get upset tummy, wasnt sure if it was due to the very high protein level in JWB puppy food or not though.

We changed him onto Burns but his growth never slowed down and he continued to gain weight and still does.

He is now almost 8 months and weighs 27 kg.

Smile

roxi123 · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject:

Interesting thread.... we fed our dogs on pedigree complete from pup, then switched to burns, their energy levels were low and coat was very dull.
I now feed them Arden grange, only been on it a couple of months but they do biggers poos Sad

but coat looks good and weight ideal.