Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Confusion - Differing Methods/Instruction
I have been pondering this for some time now having had several conversations over the years with people, both those dishing advice, and those recieving it. We sit here in the middle of April and the gundog club training 'season' is starting. Certainly down south we are lucky enough to have eight or ten clubs within 100 miles to attend, and of course most or many take private instruction too. Forum members also have access to the advice and opinions of many who work their dogs on this and other forums. We also tend to get a bit of advice from judges when we are running in tests. Then we read books too....
....... and it seems everyone has a different opinion and way of doing nearly everything! Now that is something that has been the same since the dawn of time. But I know how incrediably confusing this is to newcomers to the sport.
You want to get as many classes in as possible, so you attend two maybe three clubs. You do some private training one to one, possibly... and you read stuff on here, and before long 'boom shake the room!' Your head is in bits and you are confident of one thing only, that you aren't confident of anything!
You attend your instructor and what they say makes good sense about, say teaching the 'hold'. You go to a class, where, in going to put the dummy back into your dogs mouth and heel it forward as your *instructor* told you, the club trainer squeeks and yells and tells you to throw it a couple of foot, let the dog pounce on it and then call it in again... You go to ANOTHER club who says 'don't worry too much about the hold, dear, yet...get the rest of it right first....'
And you spin!
This is just one of dozens of exercises, problem and senarios.
Some private instructors allow a little forceful handling on a hard dog, indeed encourage it as you are 'behind closed doors' then you might train at a club where, because being more public, you need to be much more 'tickle and beg' for the watching masses. Elsewhere you might find a club allows methods you find quite hard and you are amazed to see people using them!
I thought I write these thoughts simply having trained three times this week myself under three different instructors I realise how I automatically swop between what i do for each for a quiet life, but only on the minor points, the major points I keep the same method even if it does drive one instructor loopy! No point in confusing the poor dog to keep them smiling, I'm paying!
SO, therefore, as the season goes on, take this to heart - we ALL get confused. We ALL get differing advice, even if we go to one and one only trainer, you still read things and see people do different things elsewhere and question your own methods.
What is important is you keep focused. Something works for your dog, you stick at it not chop and change. You carefully and politely refuse to use an entirely different method in a class if you think it might confuse the dog, but stay realistic....trying something else once or twice in a class won't hurt the dog or your progress unles you know it will set the dog back - who knows it might help! and no instructor should encourage you to use harsh methods on a dog they hardly know so no harm will be done. If they do, smile sweetly and say 'Thanks I'll just keep doing what i'm doing, I know you think I'm soft but its just not my way....'
Even the big boys swop and change what they do - or flow their thought pattern on something in many cases.
So soak it all in like a sponge, know feeling confused is normal, and pick what works, even if its a bit from this person and a bit from that person, and run with it.
And enjoy all that training out there even if it is a bit of a trek from some areas!
Di
Last edited by Diana on Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
I think that's true of all dog training really, whether it's puppy, obedience, agility or the more serious stuff. Most trainers have a different slant on things. It's just with other activities you usually select only one trainer.
I suppose as a complete novice I expect to make (well I have already) a complete hash of it with poor Basil but along the way I'll form an opinion and plan on how i'll do it next time Plus I'll have learnt how to undo some of my own mistakes.
If everyone got it perfect on their first attempt it would all seem too easy and stop being fun
I am also not the type to readily accept what I'm told to do in a class - but i think this is important. I feel comfortable challenging choices of commands (I won't release on a name with B for example) or training methods, not because I think I have the right answer (obviously i don't) but i do know my dog well enough to know what won't work for him, or me or both of us.
So to all the beginners starting out good luck and enjoy, I am slightly jealous as I can't wait to join a club
I am sure Di won't mind if I just add one more thing .
Only you actually know your dog! The instructor sees it for an hour in a very artificial class or one to one set up and they have to make a quick assessment of your dog and train what they see. I am sorry I am not attacking trainers out there there are some very good ones but there are also trainers who don't really remember your dog, or on occasions (when they are the same colour ) think they are training a different dog!!
If you are convinced in your own mind that what they are telling you to do does not suit your dog then stick to your guns (excuse the pun ). Try to talk it through with the trainer but, as Di says, at the end of the day it is your dog and you are the one putting your hand in your pocket.
Nothing to do with gundog training, of which I know nowt, but I would say that you should always ask the trainer 'why' they do anything they do (unless the reson is patently obvious, in which case you'd look a fool!)
Any decent trainer will have evidence and sensible reasons to back up what they are teaching. They should be able to explain why they have chosen their method over another. And good teachers enjoy explaining their reasoning and logic. If they can't explain it, then they shouldn't teach it (in my opinion anyway)
As the aldies say variously above, this is of course not unique to gundog training, it is the same for any sport hobby or interest! Its the same for anything in life at all! However we can set our dogs back terribly agoing at it in three different directions, so its important to stay focused and mull over the differing advice, as it will all help your training progress even if you learn what you definately don't want to do!
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Interestingly I've found the best techniques and advice (for me anyway) has always come from those trainers who have always stated that theirs is not the only way - and I've been lucky that I've been to quite a few of those.
Amen to that Jem - that is exactly the trainers I like too
Also to add, that whilst I say above agreeing the 'conflicting advice' senario is not exclusive of course to gundog training, some of these hardnened old sorts can sound pretty persuasive and can be rather 'sharp' if you suggest by not following their methods there might be another way. That can be a real problem in classes sometimes. The idea that by doing something a little different you may be mocked, slapped down or thought 'above yourself'. Actually sometimes you can, as i say, try something once they set, and that should be enough to assess if it might do you any good at all... and then that exercise is over with that instructor and you know they are not to your taste
Diplomacy is the key
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Oh yes best not to actually fall out with anyone, so come the day you march up to do a working test and there is "that person" judging the test you can smile sweetly and say good morning, how are you .
As my mates say they can see me taking the advice in, I blink a few times a bit like a wise old owl, smile sweetly and say yes thank you I will give that a try, turn and walk away and they know jolly well I have already decided it will be over my dead body!!!!
Diplomacy is the key at all times though you never know where you will meet them next .
I think another important factor to bear in mind is that no one trainer has "the" right way to train a dog, it does n't exist.
Every dog is different, and the key to being a good trainer is to adapt what ever method or technique is required for the dog in front of you.
Many trainers only seem to have one way of training, which may work well with a particular type of dog, but seem unable to adapt their methods to suit a different type of dog.
I'm not a trainer, and don't claim to be, but I have been to quite a few, and my approach is to try and cherry pick the bits I like from each and every one.
One other point to bear in mind, just become someone is judging, it does n't mean they know what they are talking about.
Same thing applies to some people I've seen taking classes at some gundog clubs.
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Now that is something that has been the same since the dawn of time. But I know how incrediably confusing this is to newcomers to the sport.
Plus I'll have learnt how to undo some of my own mistakes.
- but i think this is important. I feel comfortable challenging choices of commands (I won't release on a name with B for example) or training methods, not because I think I have the right answer (obviously i don't) but i do know my dog well enough to know what won't work for him, or me or both of us.
) think they are training a different dog!!
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