Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: Is dual purpose doomed?
Hello,
From what I have seen, the two lines are diverging so far from one another (show / working) that the idea of having a dual purpose dog
seems laughably difficult to achieve. I think the last one - a beautiful
animal - was Staindrop Saighdear.
Does anyone think it is possible to produce a real dual champion or
do you really have to specialise?
Oh my god Angela what a topic - wonderful - rolls up sleeves....but then has to roll them back down as the office calls...
I don't beieve it will be possible to ever produce a DUAL CHAMPION now. However I DO believe it is possible to produce dual puirpose Labradors now. And not JUST good looking shooting dogs (although that is a worthy enough cause) but dogs who can win at Championship show level AND compete successfully in field trials and working tests, preferably above Novice level where they start to get seriously taxed.
Any degree of working towards show and working success is moving towards dual purpose. I have to say there are dual purpose kennels in the UK, but many slightly hoodwink by running two lines which rarely meet in the middle - they have a trial line they work and a show line they show, but people never seem to quite realise that. They just read the results in the press and think they are the same dogs
I could write volumes. The problem is there are many lines out there that work good looking dogs. There are many who show well and talk a good dual purpose but maybe just go out beating with a dog on a long line. Its why for me its hard to be dual without competition awards in both arenas because its proving you aren't just talking the talk but walking the walk.
What are YOUR thoughts, are you working towards this goal? Its bloody hard. But its possible. You have to compramise on working ability a *little* to get what they want for the ring. You have to compramise on show wins a *little* to have a dog capable of a serious days working (as in weight they carry and desire to wag ones bottom off for a small piece of sausage when they know what else life is about and enjoy that more!)
As usual I shall of course be late for work but thats par for the course since I found LF
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Actually, the last came along two years later. Mrs Wormald's Knaith Banjo in 1946.
Like Di, sadly I cannot see another Dual Champion, unless what is looked for in a Field Trials dog changes. I think "Controlability" is just too important these days, possibly at the expence of natural game finding ability.
But saying that, I'd say that the number of working show dogs is possibly greater now than for a long time. Possibly at least in part due to his grace, The Duke of Wellington, who said when he became president of the Labrador Retriever Club, that is was his aim to close the gap between the working and show dogs. Something I for one would love to see.
his aim to close the gap between the working and show dogs. Something I for one would love to see
here here!!!!!!
Quote:
The problem is there are many lines out there that work good looking dogs. There are many who show well and talk a good dual purpose but maybe just go out beating with a dog on a long line. Its why for me its hard to be dual without competition awards in both arenas because its proving you aren't just talking the talk but walking the walk.
Yup! and I don't want to highjack the OP thread, but it does beg the question as to what is the ultimate definition of 'dual purpose'? Even in my limited experience I have heard many differing interpretations and often get blank looks from 'working' folk when I mention 'dual purpose'! Would be interested you peeps' definitions....
what is the ultimate definition of 'dual purpose'?
To me, a show dog who works adequately or a working dog who shows adequately. Yes, there are a few who go that way too! A friend of mine used to show Amy's sire, with quite reasonable results from time to time for his owner who's only real interest was in working him.
But one thing I must say right now. Every single working dog ever to be born has show dogs in his pedigree somewhere if you look hard enough. And this includes IGL Retriever Championship winning dogs! After all, they all came from the same place originally.
Just a thought- but does the term 'duel purpose' always refer to a lab being able to be shown AND Work in the field? What about a lab who shows and does agility, or a working lab who does obedience competitions?
We had this conversation a couple of weeks ago, becs on another thread, I wrote a long piece for you, maybe you didn't see it, I'll try and find the link...
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Found it but its a bit of a way into the thread so will paste my messages (two) here:
We were talking about the Show Gundog Working certificate (SGWC):
Becs wrote:
" is it just for labs or can any gundog get the working certificate and a show one? And what about in other groups and disciplines? For example, Could a border collie get a double-whammy for passing a certain level in obedience and showing? "
Ok, ALL the gundog breeds can take and pass their SGWC. But ONLY the gundog breeds can take it. sadly no there are no other 'equivalents' for other breeds, although of course *IF* a border collie, for example, became a showring Champion AND an obedience champion its name would indicate this by being written as CH and OB CH Blah Blah zippy collie cleverdick.
Let me explain something else. Our GUNDOG breeds are the only breeds who can become SH CH's (Show Champions). All other breeds, when they get the necessary wins in the showring, go straight being CHAMPION so and so.... not SHOW CHAMPION so and so like the gundog breeds.
THEN for a gundog to call its self CH so and so, it has to pass this SGWC malarky. If it doesn't it will stay a SH CH all its life.
If it has already passed it BEFORE it makes up to SH CH in the ring, then it bypasses forever being a SH CH and goes straight to being CH so and so.
" Or in poodle in showing and agility? Or Ida in showing and heelwork-to-music ( I'm allowed to have my dreams!!!) "
See in the UK champion titles are only won in a small amount of disciplines, showing, field trials, working trials and obedience. Not agility, not heelwork to music, not working tests.
'Dual purpose' in gundog breeds is a debateable area. Some consider it very loose and if a dog shows and maybe goes out shooting and works ok, then the dog or kennel it comes from is 'dual purpose'. Some take it as far as to brand klennels who pick up with dogs with show dogs in their pedigree as 'dual purpose'. Some feel its a bit more than that and some decent wins to prove the dog is actually GOOD at both things should be obtained before that label is applied. I imagine its the same in breeds with a real and proper purpose still such as the working sheep breeds, the breeds commonly doing competition obedience and so on. The debate could rage and rage - what IS dual purpose? Its being good at two things. So therefore really the few labradors out there winning in the ring who do very well at competition obedience should also be considered 'dual purpose', but infact its a label confined it seems really in the gundog breeds to the original function of a dog - working on game or dummies to a certain extent AND doing well in the showring.
" And out of interest.....does anyone know who and what the most multi-tasking, certificate-winning dog is? (I don't- I just wondered if there was such a thing!?) "
I have a friend who has minor show, major working test and enormous working TRIAL awards on her Labrador dog. Thats pretty neat but VERY rare. The reason people tend to do only one thing with their dogs, be that working, showing or whatever is it takes a lot to do even one thing well. Money, time, patience, travelling, training etc. So to start thinking of doing two things well, starts to put you in the looney bin sometimes (or you take to drink and loose husbands like tissues in a gale if you are me because you can't afford the 'Priory'!)
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
Would be interested you peeps' definitions.... 
