Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Daisy's season has started - day 5
Well at last Daisy's season has started. Today is day 5. I have chosen Oulsmi it's just me as stud. I spoke to the breeder last night who is being very supportive. She has advised me to have a progesterone test done on monday (day 09). is this what i have seen referred to on her as a premate test?? Anyway i've read up on the hormone levels and average ovulation times within a season so im ok on all that.
As it's daisy's first litter i can definitely see the sense in having the test, as i have no idea when she ovulates in her season and its a good couple of hours to the breeder.
One concern i have is that her blood loss is very little and although still a full red colour has subsided quite considerably. her vulva isnt really very swollen at all either. She has been like this every other season apart from her first (where she bled quite a bit and was very swollen). Is this anything to worry about?? This is her 4th season.
Any thoughts/advice much appreciated.
P..S again thanks to all who helped and advised on choosing a stud/breeder. I'm really happy with Oulsmi.
If this season is the same or similar to her other seasons then I wouldn't be inclined to worry. Having said that, she may well be an early ovulator - what is the pattern of her seasons usually?
The progesterone test is also known as the Premate test - I would contact your vet now about the Premate kits as our vet doesn't keep them in stock and has to order them in - I *think* he said they take about 5 days to come in! Our vet requires us to pay for a whole pack (either 5s or 10s) so that's worth bearing in mind.
Good luck and look forward to hearing how things go
I'm in the fortunate situation that I have my own ovulation kit at home - He's called Flatus and is a very reliable 'sniffer' dog as he is a bit daft (or maybe just trained?) when it comes to check out a bitch, he does NOT jump on without permission (which he has never been allowed to, the poor boy). He's the best ovulation kit you can get!
As Lucy says, your bitch *might* just be an early ovulator in wich case you might be running late getting the kit but I'm by all means no expert - all I know is that every bitch is different and it's you, the bitch owner, that knows her better than anyone els.
Good luck with it all - it sure are exciting times!
Best of luck. Its very good advice to premate test a first timer. Especially if there is any distance to travel.
The only time to start scratching your head is if the test is saying 'go' and she is saying 'no'. Then you still have a window of opportunity.
Something people forget or don't realise if that we wish to catch these bitches AFTER ovulation has started. So when the most common result comes back - 'Ovulation will commence is approx 48 hours' doesn't mean GO TO YOUR STUD DOG in 48 hours. Give it an extra day because you want ovulation well underway.
Some say, and in practise I have found this to be true, more bitches arrive when mated the SECOND the bitch ovulates, and more dogs when the bitch is mated later after ovulation has commenced. But it could be luck and coincidence. Either way, don't rush there.... more bitches miss from the owners being too lively on their toes than too late by a million percent.
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Daisy's season has started - day 5
Toni wrote:
As it's daisy's first litter i can definitely see the sense in having the test, as i have no idea when she ovulates in her season and its a good couple of hours to the breeder.
.
If the stud isnt a log way off i wouldnt personally bother wit hthe test. The Stud owner is recommending that becasue it makes their life easier.
After 3 seasons trust your own instinct. You know when she started bleeding so she is going to be ready to mate circa 10 days after that. Eggs take a few days to mature, semen is viable for circa 48 hours. Ideal is around 2 days after ovulation so day 12.
If you take her out and bump into a few males around day 9-10 she will either seem receptive or not. If she is letting them mount her/appears willing to let them she might be just about ready. if she isnt ready she will protect her ear end/sit down etc but be careful and its arguuably not a fair thing to to do to other owners but you know ...
If she is having none of it around day 9/10 leave it 2-3 days then go to the stud. Repeat 2-3 days later if they mate successfully.
Your dog will exhibit flagging - so around 10-14 days she should be very happy when you scratch the base of her tail - another sign she is ready.
If you can only have one mating you are prob better off having the test.
Your risk factors are primarily - you miss the spot. if you leave it much beyond 14 days after she fisst started breeding to se if sh will accept the stud that might be too late. It prob isnt but it might be.
If you go too early she wont have any of it.
You ideally want to catch her first set of eggs as they are about to mature = circa 2 days after she ovulates/will nominally accept the male. And her second/successive eggs = a second mating 2-4 days after the first.
if she is fertile and the stud is fertile 2 successful mates later she will be pregnant most likely. It is unlikely that if she is mated twice between days 10-16 after bleeding started that she wont get pregnant.
Last edited by Salllygh on Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Daisy's season has started - day 5
Salllygh wrote:
If you take her out and bump into a few males around day 9-10 she will either sem receptive or not. If she is letting them mount her/appears willing io let them she might be just about ready.
Salllygh I am a total novice (and do not claim to be otherwise) but I have to say that your advice is utterly irresponsible! You should NOT be taking a full on in season bitch out at day 9/10 "to see if she is receptive" at ALL. It has been written here over and over again that dogs exposed to a red hot bitch can, and do, go doolally; erasing any training that their owners have put in with them. IMHO taking a bitch out in her red hot glory for free to see if your bitch is mateable is not a good enough reason to forego a few quid for a quick and simple blood test which, if done correctly will give accurate results.
I'm shocked that after reputable, respected and experienced breeders on this forum have written extensively time and time again on this matter, you have come in and said what you have said. Do you not read previous posts?
Sorry if I come across as harsh but I feel it needs to be said.
Now you have edited your post which makes me look like a mad woman on a rant
no you are definitely not ranting - you are corect it can be risky snd it is arguably a bit ufiar on the other owners but if you are going to wander about with an intact male - they have to be responsible and aware enough to deal with such situations.
I certainly wouldnt recommend waving her in front of a couple of Rottys being walked by a ninety year old but waving her in front of a jack russell packing a baby carrot isnt going to be too difficult to handle !
You want to have the car near by or somewhere else you can retreat to.
I crtainly wouldnt recommend this approach much after day 9-10 that would be a little more risky.
It is however a very effective method of determining if your bitch is getting close and day 9-10 are fairly important becasue if she is showing willingness around these days what you think are day 9-10) then you know you have got to get going. If she isnt you know you probably have a window of say 4-10 days from that date to get her mated.
i appreciate the blood test is not excessively expensive but it all adds up If your local romeo Yorkshire Terrier is on hand why not use him for free and donate the fee to the starving in Africa if you feel too guilty !
for someone breeding for the first time and reading up, the timingds can seem quite complex and challenging. I dont think they are in the majority of cases.
the more you read the more unsure you are.. It leads to a spiral of doubt and anxiety. just focus on the facts and probabilities.
Most dogs will ovulate 9-12 days after bleeding starts and release eggs 9-14 days after bleeding starts. The semen is viable for 12-48 hours. The female releases eggs over several days. The eggs take around 48 hours to be viable after release. You want to try and catch as many eggs as possible. 2 matings between days 10-14 after bleeding starts or 1-5 days after ovulation (when bleeding changes, bitch will usually allow mounting/flags readilyetc) you are pretty much doing all you can without need for tests and extra worry.
Last edited by sallllygh on Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Salllygh, aren't you the person who recently posted a thread "observations on having just had my first litter"?
You're a complete novice to breeding, and it shows in every word you've typed.
I agree with Lucy, I think a lot of your "advice" is, at best, ignored, and at worst, downright dangerous/stupid, and the OP would be best to disregard what you've written and instead follow the advice given earlier by experienced breeders who know what they're talking about.
Toni, good luck for the mating!! Have you spoken to your vet yet about the tests, can they get them in for you in time??
Please let us know how it goes, best of luck!!
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as he is a bit daft (or maybe just trained?) when it comes to check out a bitch, he does NOT jump on without permission (which he has never been allowed to, the poor boy). He's the best ovulation kit you can get! 
