Oh! Right! (Covers Ida's eyes and tilts screen away from her view!)
So what are the 2 different viewpoints on forcing mating? I guess one extreme is 'if they don't want to mate then thats the end of that', whereas the other side would be 'mate at any cost?' And a lot of views in the middle somewhere I should imagine?
Do you have bitch owners who say, if its not going smoothly, 'thank-you, but we'll leave it there', or do most owners want to press ahead regardless? Are there any cases where a dog (or stud) has been mentally damaged by being vigorously assisted (I don't know how else to put it!) with mating?
" Not ever having been there on the Fertilisation end of puppies, I could be talking out of my backside (and probably am)....But why, if a bitch is known to be so difficult to mate, don't you use AI rather than risk any injuries and stress???? Is it that much more difficult to get a bitch in pup using AI, or is there another reason why this isn't used??? "
... Good question, Jules. In the United States, AI is used almost more often than natural matings. Even when a bitch has never been attempted to be covered they will use AI because it is more 'clinical' and presents 'no risk' to their 'valueable' stud dogs and bitches.
(I hasten to also add AI is ALSO used there because of the distances involved as frozen or chilled semen is essential as it would be impossible to take your bitch to more than a handful of decent stud dogs because of the thousands of miles involved - to be fair too....)
BUT, in many cases, natural matings have become a 'thing of the past' because AI is so commonly accepted. Its not a 'last resort' process, its used even if sire and dam live in the same kennel! When questioned I constantly am bombared with 'Because why risk a dog being bitten or an infection being passed when it could all be nice and clean and clinical?'.
Its a hard argument to argue against. Other than we SHOULD still mate naturally (which sounds weak when you can't find the words to back it up) which makes me sound like a petulent child sticking two fingers up in the face of progress and science.
In the Uk right now there are some very strongent kennel Club rules for using AI, one of them being it should NOT be used if the Sire and Dam reside IN THE SAME COUNTRY. So therefore a bitch just being 'a bit tricky to mate' is not an acceptable reason right now on paper. ALTHOUGH, that SAID, of course some DO use it to get their unmateable bitches mated and just don't *tell*!
They get their unmateable bitches mated by AI, get their unwhelpable bitches whelped by CSection and their unmotherly bitches to raise their pups by handrearing by bottle... and we call it progress.
I know it might seem silly to not like the idea of AI when I would be happy (under certain circumstances) to force an unwilling bitch to mate, which is more stressful for the bitch? But MOST don't object from start to finish. They are either difficult to start with then settle, or are difficult when they tie the dog, then settle, OR go for him when the tie breaks and their hormones and muscles are going loopy, BUT few are awful start to finish.
AI has a lower strike rate than natural matings and at the moment it is technically not allowed by the kennel club.
Di
____________ ´...exactly which part of ´WOOF´ do you not understand???..."
Di
They get their unmateable bitches mated by AI, get their unwhelpable bitches whelped by CSection and their unmotherly bitches to raise their pups by handrearing by bottle... and we call it progress.
Oh yes Di I can fully understand where you are coming from there as I've heard of an EBT breeder that does all three ....Apparently he also does do the occasional "natural" mating but then both dogs have to be muzzled and he doesn't allow full penetration (I can only guess how ), so he can pull his prize dog out before the bitch ties to him. His puppies have to go to a wet nurse or else his bitches have to be muzzled and supervised while feeding their own offspring, otherwise they try to kill them .
It all sounds a very stressful procedure to me and most unnatural....to be fair, I feel if it takes that much interference to have puppies of that particular breed, then Mother Nature is trying to tell the world it is time EBT's were extinct.
I thought this was an excellent read, and my imagination ran riot with some of the descriptive matings
Many moons ago I used to breed and show cats. I kept a couple of studs and decided after only two dreadful experiences with visiting cats that public stud was not for me. I had more trouble with the owners than the cats I find it quite worrying how people with pedigree bitches can sometimes just see a likely dog out and ask to use them on their bitches.
Last edited by westcountrygirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Right! (Covers Ida's eyes and tilts screen away from her view!)
I find it quite worrying how people with pedigree bitches can sometimes just see a likely dog out and ask to use them on their bitches.