Kat-S  Offline
early riser
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Good for you Jade, it is best to get knowledge and experience before you start breeding. Many good breeders did not breed from the first dog they owned, it simply sparked an interest in the breed, and those that did realise years down the line that they probably shouldn't have done. You sound sensible and just the sort of person the breed needs in the future - someone who is prepared to put the future of the breed before their desire to have puppies.
Sorry to hijack your thread, I thought the advice given was sound, but am surprised that the same is not given to those looking to breed their bitches. It does worry me the number of posts that state hips and eyes are ok so they are off to look for a stud without any thought of whether the bitch is a good enough example to breed from, because the advice should really apply whether using a stud or breeding from ones own bitch. Whilst it is not essential to show a dog, it is essential that only those close to the breed standard and in good health are bred from, and showing is probably the most reliable and easiest way to do this. A pedigree in itself will not indicate a bitch of sufficient quality to breed from, it has to be judged individually - and given that peoples interpretation of the breed standard can vary, it is better to have a number of unbiased opinions - the easiest, most honest and most reliable is through showing. Unfortunately, even the most experienced breeders can become kennel blind where their own dogs are concerned and those coming to use their studs - particularly where there is a stud fee involved - after all, these dogs earnings contribute greatly to the costs of showing which is not inconsiderable.
Good luck with what you do in the future.
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Diana  Offline
Dual Personality
Joined: May 30, 2006
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128372 LabPounds
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Lab Names: Mallie, Fish, Tom, Bondy, Mia, Ruby & Otter!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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In an ideal world I entirely agree with you Kat-SD, except I would slot in that working awards for working lines should also count to the 'status' of a dog, as many's the working line fan who would bulk at what the showring describes as 'fitting the breed standard' and do not wish for a show looking dog.
But yes in theory in an ideal world where only the top of the top class bitches AND dogs were bred from, we would only breed from proven in 'some sphere' labradors.
But I say again, its also for many reasons listed in this thread NOT just money that dogs are asked to be proven competitively and bitches are not on the whole.
Of course it would be nice if only fantastic Labradors were bred from. But as you say, fantastic varies in the eye of the beholder, so at LEAST if the sire used is good to excellent, it does at least give a fighting chance of improving the offspring.
Also, it would be lovely to meet you properly, do you fancy posting an intro as from your posts you are obviously very knowledgable about breeding and patently exhibiting yourself..... you might know some of us! Be nice to say hi!
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´! |
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Maddie Offline
Mummy to the Girlie Gang
Joined: May 10, 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I'm one of those bitch owners - got a bitch, nice pedigree, paid for health checks, got decent hip/elbow scores BEFORE I realised, in my naievity, she's just not a nice example of the breed - typical mix of chocolate show/pet bred, poor top line, not brilliant coat, but nice pigment, poor front anglulation, lacks a bit of bone but nice stifle, lovely character (most of the time  ) and most of the faults she has could be corrected with the right stud. BUT I was way too inexperienced so decided NO, I WILL NOT USE this bitch for breeding.
Now, I have a beautiful black girl, pretty darn good conformation for her age, lovely, lovely pedigree BUT I will (probably) never be able to breed with her as she has one major fault. Not a fault in the UK but a biggie where I live. So I'm back to square one again.  
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Nicola |
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Diana Offline
Dual Personality
Joined: May 30, 2006
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Posts: 19447
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128372 LabPounds
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No.of Labs: 5+
Lab Names: Mallie, Fish, Tom, Bondy, Mia, Ruby & Otter!
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Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think we all know that we don't live in an ideal world and well meaning ideals of only breeding from superb specimins just don't hang on the wall squarely in the UK.
It does contribue to why we have so many labradors out there. more rigourous controls on breeding MIGHT help, but then take Nicolas (Maddie) she lives in a country where a few missing premolars renders a dog unvbreedable. Forget temperament, working ability, movement, structure...miss a few teeth and you are struck out.
If you start to go down the 'Only if fit the show ideal of a breed standard' route the cross over of opinion on what is and isn't correct would be immense!
Imagine a top class field trial bitch, no looker but superb at her job.... failing to be bred BUT a snappy, defensive brainless top winning show bitch CAN be bred from?
Or a quiet, biddable nicely made decent pedigree with good health scores pet bitch who would be taken to a dog to upgrade her is dismissed, but a Crufts class winner with a known temperament problem and was unsound till 16 months of age but got away with it by not having her elbows scored, can have four litters!
Like in an IDEAL world the KC wouldn't register from unhipscored/eyetested parents, it is just not going to happen nor necessarily should it, likewise you cannot dismiss every bitch from breeding that is not competed with IF they try and upgrade when mating her and she has many OTHER qualities.
the difference being that a poor pet stud dog will only attract poor pet bitches, doubling up on the lack of quality.
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´! |
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