Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Advice on eye tests, Optigen testing, Hips, Elbows!!!!
I'm looking into getting another lab pup, very interested in a Fox Red lab but I believe there is a PRA problem in the line.
I'm quite confused about all the health testing (its a long time since I've been into it all, my 2 labs are 10 now)! Firstly, I need help on the eye testing. From what I know, breeders quote "clear eyes", so from what I understand this just means that there are no signs of PRA from the parents and I believe the eye certificates are valid for 12 months but what does this mean for the puppies? I believe Optigen testing goes further and shows whether or not parents carry the gene so again how does it affect litters???
I'm pretty much familiar with hip scoring but what about elbow scoring? I've noticed alot of breeders quote the hip score and eyes but not elbow scoring? I have known a few labs with bad elbow problems so again, need advice.
If you are worried about the health of elbows in a future puppy, then go for a litter whose parents have been scored at ZERO, although I think you will find it hard to find a litter with both parents scored for elbows, it's not done that much, and doesn't guarantee healthy elbow joints in the pups anyway....same as hip scoring doesn't eliminate HD totally.
The eye certs are only valid for 1 YEAR! and do only tell you the status of the eyes at that time, not what they will be in the future, Optigen testing only shows for PRA, the most serious eye condition for a Lab to suffer from, and if the parents have been tested clear, the breeder will tell you they are Optigen Clear and should have a certificate to prove this, for healthy PRA free pups, only 1 parent needs to be Optigen tested clear.
So when looking for your puppy, you will need good hip scoring parents, ZERO elbow scores of at least one parent, both should have current eye certs to check for the other eye conditions, and 1 parent to be Optigen clear.
Re: Optigen - I am sure someone will correct me if I go wrong -
There are three possible status for the dog (What you must remember is that Optigen PRA is only one of the eye conditions, and that dogs still need a current clear eye certificate) - however, my understanding is that PRA is the only condition that can cause total blindness.
STATUS
A (Clear): this is when the dog neither carries the gene and will never be affected by the condition.
B (Carrier): The dog carries the gene for PRA but will never develop the condition. If a carrier dog is to be mated, it should only ever be to a clear - and scientifically - 50% of the litter will be carriers, the other 50% clear. Mating a carrier to a carrier will produce a proportion of the litter who will be Affected (and therefore risk going blind)
C( Affected): As its name suggests, the dog is affected and therefore could go blind. Whether it is ethical to breed a dog not yet affected by the condition is another question - but providing the dog is mated to a clear - then all the litter will be carriers.
So as you can see from the above, with a bit of foresight and planning, the condition can be bred out of a lineage fairly quickly.
Obviously the ideal mating is 2 x clear - but then, if the numbers are high for carriers and affected, is there a risk to the labrador gene pool and could we lose some good dogs because of it.
Touch wood, I have been very lucky with my chocolate girl - there was a known problem in her lineage - but she has been tested and come back clear and mated to a clear so her litter (if there is a fox red in there I will die of shock ) will all be clear by parentage.
Basically - when looking at litters - you ideally need to have at least one parent tested PRA clear - then, even if the other dog hasn't been tested - you know that you are NOT going to get a dog affected by the condition. Have a look at the Optigen website for more info
If the dog is clear, there will be a letter from optigen with the name of the dog, the microchip ID and an accession number for the test.
As with everything scientific where humans are involved, there is always a risk of margin of error, which is why my understanding is that at the moment, only a first generation litter will be recognised as clear by parentage.
Quote:
I'm pretty much familiar with hip scoring but what about elbow scoring? I've noticed alot of breeders quote the hip score and eyes but not elbow scoring? I have known a few labs with bad elbow problems so again, need advice.
As above - you will be very lucky to find a litter where both parents have been elbow scored - Hally has been scored 0 - the dog I mated to her wasn't - but he was the most suitable black dog with the most appropriate hip score and lineage to match hers - he is also a veteran and has not displayed any problems, nor to my knowledge have his progeny. Only one of Clovers parents was Elbow scored.
However, now having two fairly young dogs in the house - and with a slightly better understanding of the schemes, it is easy to see that the potential environmental factors affecting the elbows are far greater than the hips, and therefore, while I will still continue to test my dogs, I can understand why the test would be viewed with scepticism, and maybe explain why it hasn't been taken on board in the same manner as the hip scoring scheme.
Again, Di has covered off some really good info on the Lab health website
So in an ideal world, as the ladies say, hips both parents below or around the breed average of about 16 (total for both hips). Elbows '0' but chances are many especially working breeders will not have scored elbows, clear current eye certificate dated in the last 12 months and at least one parent Optigen Clear, preferably both (but chances are that will be hard to find in most kennels).
So when you work all that into a breeder you like trust and respect, you seems knowledgeable, didn't just dump their own dog on their own bitch for no good reason, the mother you see seems outgoing, friendly and of the temperament you would like your puppy to be, with pusp raised in a clean and stimulating environment.... it starts to get hard to plan things like coat colour in.... but if you dig deep enough and wait long enough you can!
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
..... exackerleeee But as you know, it can be found. Just..... only usually not with elbows or Optigen these days at the minute in most places....
give it time, 3 - 5 years, and Tom Cruise will NOT be needed I think But then we will probably have another darn health scheme that we will be unethical not to use just hitting the headlines!
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
I did try my best, I must admit I haven't seen any of the trial lines with elbows done ? so hadn't given it a thought, my own niavity I admit, but at leasy like you say I have done the other tests, and insist all bitches coming to Rogan are at least hip scored and eye tested,
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and mated to a clear so her litter (if there is a fox red in there I will die of shock 
) will all be clear by parentage.
