Just writing as I think sorry all the extra posts.
I'm not sure at this stage if its not prudent to point out this sort of assistance is not unusual in almost any domesticated animal. Horses spring immediately to mind. Mares are often twitched (so their top lip twisted in a spacial noose to render them still, and often hobbled so one leg is held up so they can't move about buck and kick or they would fall over.
They often have their hooves covered too because they WILL kick and often their heads held extremely hard by two or more people.
The expensive Sire must not get damaged and, using science they know its worth pushing the mating for the foal, so the job gets done. Some mares are easy girls, some aren't. Ditto dogs, and knowing cat breeders too, ditto cats.
I wonder if you can headlock a hamster...? (I AM kiddding!)
Di
That is so true. AND they are often sedated.
You cannot risk the sire, whether it be dog, horse or hamster.
Georgie was held in a 'sort' of headlock and that wasn't because she wasn't keen, it was to stop her twisting about and injuring herself and probably the stud dog.
You are talking very valuable animals here and every precaution has to be taken. I do not think it is cruel but 'careful'..
If the bitch wasn't ready it would sit down and protest far more than any person could headlock her..
I used to think that maybe there was to much interference but after having an extremely aggressive mare, (softy in the field) who kicked ten barrels out of the stallion, I can totally understand the above.
One big problem which should always be remembered, is that so many bitches are told off, or at least stopped, by their owners if they show the remotest sexual interest in another dog. So it's not really surprising if they then dont perform when wanted without help!
Then comes the breeding V rescue.
Two points.
1/ Without breeding there would be nothing to rescue.
2/ OK, it's not quite like that because the bad breeders and puppy farms would not stop, so all there would be is poorly bred, sickly dogs.
We need good breeders. Good breeder will make sure that puppies are healthy, there is nothing more upsetting, when you get puppy from "ocasional" breeder, who hasnt done health tests and just wanted to have a litter because their pet dog is so lovely, as a consequence puppy gould have all sorts of problems.
Not so long ago I went to Wylanbriars reunion and I was so happy to see that all dogs where happy and healty and breeder - Diana, was so proud of each dog and she should be, as healthy pups will give you nothing but joy.
I am entirely sensitive to how, as the title of the thread says, the stark relaity of some matings (of any animals!) can seem 'unnatural'. But something to bear in mind is we are the only species who equate sex with any tender emotion. Well maybe penguins... Therefore we cannot put human values in. I have experienced, as have probably mentioned, watching both in Mexico and here in a farmyard, completely, and almost feral dogs attacking a bitch in season to mate her. Attacking each other, tearing her, fighting whilst in the mating act, then her being mated against and again over and over again by many males. Its really a BEAUTIFUL difference, domestic matings, even the difficult ones, to the wild examples!
I have seen and heard of matings I would disapporve of because the bitch was forced but there was no science to back up that it was even worthwhile. She may just have been objecting because she wasn't ready. But that is not what i speak of in this thread, but started the thread to give the MANY MANY people who write on here, to me, and to everyone else and say 'My boy is so brilliant I'm going to use him at stud/let him be a daddy/save the genepool because it couldn't POSSIBY do without my perfect lad' Something to think about.... beyond the 'tip them in the garden every day for a week and let nature takes it beautiful course...'
It *can* work beautifully like that, but it can, also, very much not.
I can add an extra one to the list now at this late stage when I thought i'd seen most things. My young chocolate Tom, his first bitch, his first mating, approached it confidently, took a while to get the idea but then 'went for it', mated the bitch, went to turn and screamed and screamed and screamed... serious pain and seriously frightening for everyone!
Luckily they immediately came apart with no tie (which went to show something was in there at completely the wrong angle or some such thing) and rushed him to the vet. Some minor bruising but nothing serious. It was simply terribly bad luck for him that something was just not right. God KNOWS if they had tied what I would have done because you cannot break a tie and he was both in agony and in sheer blind panic... but probably had everything been right for a tie it wouldn't have happened so hopefully thats by the by.
So 48 hours later back she comes (hugely obliging people to help rebuild the confidence of a novice dog!) and he was extremely cautious, but thank god, everything proceeded with some help and confidence boosting on his part, completely normally. Ditto the day after that, and ditto the bitch he has had this last week. They can be quite 'goldfish-ish' these creatures (thank god!), so its a dim and distant memory to him now, but was AWFUL at the time!
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
really helpful, we had been warned it wasn't easy and were thinking of it in the future but I am going to get hubby to read this. We were planning to go see and talk to a stud dog owner (Hobnob's dad and grandad) before making our decision as I would never do anything like this without a lot of good advice but I think I have been put off forever! I thought the owner of the Dam had most of the hard work raising the litter but I see now that Siring the litter is not so easy either.
____________ Natalie x
LAB LINK RESCUE Co ordinator and Forum Administrator for my sins
Jack, Molly & Maia, watched over by Tara Banana from the Bridge
Actually raising a litter can and is usually far harder because its so much longer drawn out, but there really are so many reasons not to think about turning your pet dog into a stud dog that its important for people to realise nature doesn't just beautifully take over and 9 weeks later you have perfect babies.... because its only like that very occasionally, and almost certainly NEVER when you desperately want them to
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
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(I AM kiddding!) 
