Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: Hips & elbow scoring???????
Just to be nosey
How many of us have had the elbows scored at the same time as the hips?
If not..........why not?
With Molly I just had the hips done, I wasn't really seriously considering breeding from her at that point, but if they'd come back bad, then I'd never have had a decision to make! I sometimes wish that I'd had the elbows done too.
Can you tell if a dog will have a bad elbow score or would there sometimes be no outward signs? i.e. would they have shown any lameness periodically or not etc.
Keira has HD and ED, her hips have been operated on and the vet thinks that now the pressure is off her elbows, they will be ok. When he moved her elbow joints she howled, even more so than with her hips as they were taking all the strain. Seem fine now fingers crossed.
I had Hally Hip and Elbow scored at the same time, and will more than likely do the same with Clover
It makes sense to have them done together so the dog only goes through one anaesthetic (although I believe some vets do sedation for hips only, which may be a deciding factor )
Yes I had Coco done and will be having Blue done at the same too. Here they donlt automatically give anaesthetic or sedation - THAT should be fun! NOT!
I have always scored hips but until recently only scored elbows on my Males. There was no good reason for that other than its important when a dog is putting hundreds of puppies into the gene pool to cover every possible base even if one might not personally particularly support the scheme.
I shall elbow score all my girls too from here on in (I have done one or two in the past) although personally, sorry, I know this will rattle some cages, but I'm not at all keen on the scheme and feel it is far more likely than the hip scheme to throw up unjustified results from environmental damage.
However that doesn't give me an excuse not to use it on everything now, its just I don't LIKE using it In a nutshell I feel the elbows take FAR more of a battering than hips during the first 12 months of a dogs life throwing up far more enviromental damage. Add to that the pointless 0 - 3 range of scoring with no detail whatsoever -I am going to use it but I feel its a pretty pointless exercise in trying to understand genetic inheritence which is what the schemes are for after all.
However when I do elbow score it is at the same time as hips yes at 13 months or so....
Just a personal view - some believe strongly in the scheme and thats OK by me too of course and its always better to do than not do I have come to the conclusion.
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Waiting for the brickbats - I haven't elbow-scored Tottie !!!!!!! She would go to a boy with elbow scores though - if she does that is!!!!!!
Di - just out of interest - would you consider using a dog if he had very good hip score but an elbow score higher than 1? Would like your thoughts on that if poss - thankyou
personally its a difficult one. I would firstly find out if the elbow score that is given as '2' or '3' is 0:2 or 0:3 or 2:2 for example... as you know they give it as a single figure going by the worst elbow. i would then decide if I thought the breeder someone I could entirely trust if I asked if the dog had maybe had an accident as a youngster that may account for the score.
An even 2:2 or 3;3 no i would not use. But i would look further at 0:1 or 0:2 to see if there *might* be a environmental reason for just one elbow being far more damaged than the other.
Ideally we only use 0:0 and 0:1 but for me, this daft way of only having 0-3 for elbows when we have 0 - 53 for hips means that a '0' in elbows could be a absolutely perfect elbow or it could be a really quite poor elbow but just a tiny shade under a '1'....
So I always try not be to be a hypocrite and say 'I don't always elbow score but I would only use a dog with a perfect elbow score on my bitch who might NOT have one' I always try and work with the evidence thrown up. I will do the same with my girls when I start elbow scoring them religiously from around now too. A '1' won't necessarily be a 'don't breed' if I know 'stuff' occured when she was younger.
I know of some VERY experienced breeders and one or three quite influential stud dogs who have very much less than perfect elbow scores but that is just not mentioned when you ask their health scores. You only find out when you use them, register the puppies and see instead of a blank where an elbow score might be on the puppy registration forms, a big fat '2' out of the blue ;-( hmmmm..... now thats shady.
This is only my own opinion. I would always encourage newcomers to use all the health schemes possible and to make up their own minds when they are a bit down the line with it all as to their informed opinions for good or bad. I felt I best make that clear
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
I had Tia elbow and hipscored and she came back 0-0 elbows and 4-4 on hips. I was actually advised by my spaniel's breeder who also has labs and he feels that elbows are as important and that swung it for me. The vet was quite happy to both so it just made sense at the time.
I again have never elbow scored. Having been around since way before even hip scoring started, let alone elbow scoring I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur! I to believe that there is a lot of “Environment” in there and truly believe diet is the biggest of these.
I do however hip score because of the strain put on hips from the work my dogs do. Just to widen things slightly I also eye test, although to date have not Optigen tested. The reason for that being that until recently, (The last 3 to 4 years) the results from the test were debatable. (Dogs with PA passing) But that has all changed with the latest test and once I get Amy's hip score back I'll sort out her eyes.
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