Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: Problem teaching "stop" at a distance + other
Hi all -I'm looking for a bit of direction really and need a few answers to some pretty basic questions that I can't seem to find out there.
I've been thinking about working Phoebe for a while now (but not competing as such) so this is why it's in this section
Thanks to my little pressie from Di I have been teaching Phoebe recall to a whistle and she is getting on brilliantly - she loves the whistle and is more enthusiastic at coming to the whistle than she is to my voice from long distances (not sure if this is good or bad). Her SIT to the whistle is coming on nicely too albeit very slowly (she knows it with the voice command).
Now she has got the hang of 3 pips for COME, I am trying to teach her STOP but I can't get her to STOP for love nor money - we've been at this for a fortnight now and it's getting really frustrating for both her and me because I don't think I'm being clear mainly because I don't have a scooby as to where to start.
She has always been one for NEEDING to be close to me as if her life depended on it - some people may think GREAT that's a positive thing, but not when she insists on being 2ft in front of me when she carries out the things I ask of her - like SIT - I raise my arm and give a sharp short blast and she will run across the field to SIT slap bang in front of me, making distance commands really difficult. I've tried increasing the distance gradually and have tried with or without the whistle but I honestly don't know HOW to do it
Another thing is her WAIT is good, but only if I keep repeating WAIT over and over again......how do I break the cycle of only keeping her waiting by having to repeat the word WAIT?
Anyone have any words of wisdom? I think the problem is I don't have a clue on how to break a bad habit without damaging her recall.
These are the things I'd mainly like answering but there's anything else anyone wants to pick up on as a fault or has anything interesting to say then fab - I need all the help I can get!
1) How to calm her a bit when I use the whistle (she gets all bouncy and giddy)
2) How to get her to carry out commands at a distance
3) How to teach her to STOP (with or without the whistle?)
4) How to get her to WAIT longer without me having to keep say WAIT every few seconds to get her to stay put....
I would take her to a gundog training school but there isn't one by us...sob sob sob.
we have a whistle now too. I know it's probably not much help but we started with the stop (rather than come)
we do it so that basically the whistle always means stop and then the command follows (and if at a distance we use the hand signals rather than holler)
so its whistle blow, then as basil looks around i hold my hand up for the stay. which he does until I walk towards him.
only then did we move it onto a whistle blow followed by the recall.
I know thats not much help and it sounds like you are using the whistle in a different way to us (different commands are different pips right?)
i think you are doing it the proper way but the my aim was to tach a stop for dangerous situations not gundog training.
im clutching at straws here but could you not give her the usual stay/wait command you use and then when she's in position give what ever whistle command you choose. a bit like how you would introduce a hand signal or verbal command when clicker training.
that way she would start to associate the different pips for stay and not come running every time.
crikey, hopefully someone useful will post soon. for god sake dont follow my advice you may confuse the poor girl totally
Oooo I shall be watching this thread with interest too.
Mojo will recall to 3 pips.... will go "back"... and left and right with much waving of arms (mine I hasten to add)...but Stop.....no way! If she is running out and I want her to turn, I can give one blast and she will look towards me for directions...but at 100mph...stop just doesn't come into it. If she is running in towards me I can stop her halfway (or wherever) with a raised hand, but once she is heading away from me...she is so focused on retrieving (and going so fast) that stopping just doesn't seem to be an option.
I've tried just walking with her by my side and occasionally stopping and blowing my whistle at the same time....but if she is at heel she stops when I stop anyway...so I don't think she is connecting the two.
I don't do anything seriously, we just play at being proper Gundog people, just because Mojo loves it ......but I would still love to know how to get her to stop on a blast of the whistle though.
We're doing distance stops ready for the GCDS gold stuff, and although he's getting the hang of it, we've found it SO hard.
In the end we taught it, as with all new things we do, in our living room! We had to really manipulate him into doing it the first few times for him to get what we wanted.
In the end, it took 2 of us! I trotted accross the living room with him on a lead, and dropped him into a down halfway, while Rob stood at the other end of the room and did the STOP bit with the action to co-incide with it!
Once he'd kind of got it, I put him on a long training lead and stopped going with him, so Rob would command STOP, and if he didn't I could give him a bit of guidance with the lead from where I was. (The good thing about teaching it indoors was that he doesn't tend to move as fast!!!!!) I'm not at all sure it's the right way, but now he does it every meal time to earn his dinner. I put him in a sit-wait at one end, put his dinner and me at the other, call him and STOP, he does it brilliantly inside, and we're now just at the stage of proofing it outside on walks. He did his first proper one last week across the airfield. I'll put the whistle in later, as I'd rathere he could do an emergency stop with just voice, as chances are, in an emergency it's all I might have!
He still can't do it at training properly as he gets all excited and runs at a million miles an hour!
Ooo yeah that was the most difficult bit of the Gold KCGC.
Mojo does everything at 100mph, so you can imagine how difficult it was to stop her in mid recall.
I worked on slowing down her recall by using slightly different body language and a much softer, lower voice. Instead of holding my arms out as if to greet her, I would point at her with both arms up, then slowly draw an imaginary line along the ground until she was where I wanted her, this seemed to slow her down no end. Then I would drop one arm and pop the other up, flat palmed, as if to stop traffic, take a large, lunging step towards her and command STOP in my best mean it voice. I started quite close to her, then gradually moved back and as she started to *get* it I stopped the stepping forward.
She went from really not understanding what I wanted, to the penny dropping in one afternoon, as soon as I changed tactics....I had even tried tying her on a long line to a post (trainers instructions) so she had to stop, before to no avail.
I have to say though I have never had the need to use this command and I've since found it only works if she is coming towards me....If she is about to run off after another dog, person etc and I really need to stop her...I just shout "WAIT" and more often than not this works.
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If she is running in towards me I can stop her halfway (or wherever) with a raised hand, but once she is heading away from me...she is so focused on retrieving (and going so fast) that stopping just doesn't seem to be an option.
