Dogs as Individuals - Long

littlelab · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject:

Di

Congratulations on a fantastic post, I don't really know what category Jack would fall into, he is neither a W or a P but a bit of both, but as you say each dog is an individual. Thanks for giving me loads to think about Very Happy

Is it genetics? Or is it just programming from birth to the time the pups leave mum? Can behaviour really be inherited through genes, the science fraternity is divided, nature or nurture? Interesting, yet more for me to ponder on and research Laughing

Carroll · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject:

Fab post Di Wink

Majic is mainly P until the Landywoods man comes and then she is a W and barks like hell at him but backing off all the time Rolling Eyes

_Den_ · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject:

reeally good post Di, Our Brodie is most def a P....

_Chris_ · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks Di,

I hadn't really thought about it much till I read your post, I have worried over the months that Jess is a bit timid of certain people, of large vehicles etc and that I hadn't socialised her enough, she is a bit flighty and although it would be nice to have her walk at my side offlead, I realise that it isn't the end of the world!! But I had already come to the conclusion that she is what she is and she is ours and we love her to bits whatever!! I hadn't given the 'breeding line' a thought. Very very interesting!

mgps · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:

I know nothing about breeding or genetics but intuitively it makes a lot of sense that behaviour and temperament should be passed down blood lines. I'm sure I read somewhere that in respect of a dog we should always be to his virtues ever kind, but to his faults a little blind. Your post explains why.

But I'm also conscious that a shy, timid dog in expert and confident hands is no problem to anyone; combined with a shy, timid and cautious handler it can be more of a problem. Your "W" type may track you round the show ground, but a similar dog in different hands could be more unpredictable. What you say should hopefully give people the confidence to know that they don't have a difficult dog persay, but this is still just the starting point for a sensible training regime (for owners as well as dogs).

I think that reasonable expectations are at the heart of the matter - some dogs are going to be gregarious, boisterous loons, others are going to be introspective. Neither has licence to be a nuisance. But as you say what we need to do is provide room for their characters when we make the demands that make them good companions.

Fay · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject:

Thank you Di! I have 2 P's Very Happy

Shona · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:57 am Post subject:

Sharon137 · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:43 am Post subject:

Found this thread totally fascinating, hit home with me to Di! Wink

I don't know what traits run through my 2's pedigree.

Still thinking if mine are P's or W's.......... though

As you know mine have the same sire side but different dam side. Bailey was one of 11! and Sara one of 4.
I was thinking while i was training with Sara last night. Sara is a lot more confident than bailey at this age and she is quite happy running around with the other pups and playing and then she done what bailey done which was come a sit at my feet. It did make me smile Very Happy

. Inherited or not. I don't know.

Diana · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:35 am Post subject:

" But I'm also conscious that a shy, timid dog in expert and confident hands is no problem to anyone; combined with a shy, timid and cautious handler it can be more of a problem. Your "W" type may track you round the show ground, but a similar dog in different hands could be more unpredictable. "

Michael, thank you for raising that very much. Yes it is absolutely right. The problem comes when a 'W' is coupled with the wrong sort of home or person for it, ditto a 'P'.

Imagine if a quiet, elderly couple take aon a whacking great boistrious 'P'. Or a riotious hectic family household with small children and a hectic social life take on a true 'W'. It depends how much they can and want to put into the dog.

The thing being, that as regards TRAINING and MANNERS generally both can, with time be trained to be equally obedient, do all those things required of a happy sociable dog for the MOST part. Its just their instinctive - what I call a 'blank canvas' reaction to a certain or some certain stimuli.

Undersocialising a W is a disaster waiting to happen, undertraining a P ditto means often an out of control antisocial dog, maybe a humper, maybe a 'runner up to every dog it sees' - Where as W wouldn't want to charge up to a family having a picnic to save its life willingly...

In knowledgeable hands either are wonderful dogs, neither is better than the other, but yes certainly a true W, in the wrong hands could be that dog that ends up a fear biter. Or a growler when you want them off the sofa and they are comfy. Or run home across a main road if frightened by another dog or a bang or whatever.

A P can leap all over a small child knocking them flying, can drag an owner over a road to meet another dog and so on.

Its not a post to EXCUSE poor behaviour in either type (or the huge variation of types inbetween) but yes, its to say that truely, you may NEVER stop your W growling at other dogs when they sniff her backside. Just because next doors P bitch shoves her backside at them to sniff and grins from ear to ear doesn't mean you can get your dog to react like that. Ever.

And although your friends W was easy to stop bowling up to other peoples dogs out on walks and clung close or was quick to train not to, doesn't mean it wouldn't be almost impossible for you with your P to completely cure it..... you can do lots about it, but that natural boldness is there against the W's natural shyness.

Enough Di. Wink

D

Becs · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:50 am Post subject:

Can I ask a question?
At what age can you have some idea about what a puppy's temperment will be like (roughly speaking).
I've never actually chosen a pup from a litter- my own dogs were 'last of littters' and DftD pups are just presented to me!
If, one day, I'm in a position to have another pup of my own for keeps, and I've found a breeder I like, like the dam etc...and then see say 10 pups of the same litter and have a choice, how would I know I was picking the one that would suit me best? Its something that concerns me as whatever pup I chose would then hopefully, be my mate for the next 12-15 years and so I'd want one that I was going to get along with.
Personally, I like a more 'in yer face' type lab.....so how would I know?

Thanks in advance,
Becs and the Gang