Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: Help! What am I doing wrong?
Hello, its me again. Sorry to be such a pain, but I have more questions! It is the crate thing again! We think we have night time pretty much sorted - Megan (who came to us at 12 weeks and has been with us for exactly 7 days) goes into her crate at midnight with a chew, some toys, an old top of mine, a blanket over the crate and Classic FM on low, cries for 10-15 mins, and then sleeps right through. I did the up at 3am for a wee for a couple of nights, but she does not seem to need it now.
HOWEVER, the problem is putting her into her crate during the day. I have been putting her in there during daylight hours for an hour or two to get her used to it, but she howls for up to an hour! It was particularly bad today - I worked a nightshift last night from 2200 to 0700 this morning. When I came in at 0700 she was awake but quiet - I let her out and she had a good long wee. She came back in and then I prepared her breakfast, which she ate up. Then back outside for another small wee and a good poo. Back in then and into her crate at 0800 as I am on the same shift tonight and need sleep!! (My partner works Mon-Fri 0800 to 1700). Put her in her crate with all the same things except the blanket over the top, and she howled again for about 15 mins. However I was woken up at about 10.15 by howling, so went down to let her out for a wee, which she did. Popped her straight back in, went back to bed. Howling continued for AGES, and then went quiet. Started up again before midday - I ignored it. Lasted for about 30 mins, then went quiet. Started up again just before 1pm and went on for 30 mins - I ignored it again. I got up properly just before 2pm as she has her lunch then, and when I came down she was quiet. Why will she not settle in the crate during the day? Anyone else experienced this?
Sorry to write war and peace about this, but I am particularly concerned about it because I want her to settle in her crate in the daytime because next Monday we leave her in the house alone for the first time since we got her. Even though I work shifts and myself and my partner are rarely both out at work at the same time for any length of time, 2 days out of every 10 I work "normal" 9-6 days. (I do 2 day shifts, then 2 evening shifts, then 2 night shifts, then 4 days off). We live close enough to be able to pop home at lunchtime, but she will be being left for 4 hours at a time in her crate. At the moment she does not seem to be able to go more than one and a half hours without howling the house down! I am not so much worried about the lack of sleep, I can catch up on that when my partner gets home, but I do worry that I am stressing Megan out by something I am doing (or not doing). Not to mention the neighbours!! At least if they do start hammering on the door to complain I won't be able to hear them over the howling!!!
Any and all advice gratefully and eagerly awaited,
Aimi
I'm sorry I do of course remember our correspondance last year, I was sunning it in Spain at the time - who could forget a name like Duckpizza
Now there is good news and bad news.
The bad news is this is not going to be easy. DON'T take any of this the wrong way, but nightshioft workers sometimes think that having a dog will be fine because they are physcially 'in the house' but forget the dog has been asleep all night and its very unnatural for it to be asleep all day too, especially if they know you are around the house.
Of course people crate their pups whilst they go to work, definately. But this is one reason personally I won't sell to full time workers because when young its only in fits and starts they sleep during the day before wanting a potter about and a wee and some entertainment. You can sneek it for 3 or 4 hours but then its pushing it.
OF COURSE folks who crate all day or come home lunchtime have no idea that the dog may well have shrieked for quite some time after them leaving.
This is the good news - the fact that dogs DO adjust to people going OUT to full time work means that its do'able. the problem you have uis dogs are not stuypid and know you are about the house.
Also a pup who gets up at 6.30/7am from a nights sleep, then you come in and an hour later want it to go back down for 3, 4 or more hours.... it just isn't going to happen.
SO you are going have to rethink. I don't think crating is for you in the daytime. A pup crated has two options, sleep or yell. A pup loose in a kitchen with toys down, paper down and so on has more options for entertainment.
More bad news - Entertainment may well take the form of chewing and so on, all the 'old' things that crates do away with, but the difference being YOU need some sleep after a nightshift, someone going out to work will not hear their pup shrieking on and off (and therefore will imagine mostly it doesn't happen - evil grin).
And it won't kill the pup to be angry/upset at being cooped up so long so in a way what if it does to someone going OUT to work. You need quiet though so i would recommend nighttime crating, but daytime when the pup is naturally not sleep for great long periods, making the kitchen the 'day room' with a little more freedom and self entertainment options and you will certainly find less howling than trying the crate route.
Now you CAN continue the crate route, but, me, I don't think its fair myself. Its such a short period of entertainment from you in the morning before down time again i think she will yell, maybe after a while not when you first put her down, but after an hour or two certainly just as you hit decent sleep.
Its not easy, but with a few tweeks it might just work.
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
... Just rereading your post. Hate this angel of doom hat Dogs adjust to anything in the end, but shift patterns are darn hard when the other partner is out all day. The pup doesn't have a set routine and doesn't really know for a good few months if it is coming or going with you around one minute, gone all day the next and around the house but wanting silence and no interaction the next.... its not easy, but I stand by making your kitchen the 'day room' and making sure when you go to bed in the day you are VERY quiet, no loo's flushing and so on, you might be able to fool pup into not thinking you are there. Leave the radio on all day too fairly loud to cover any little noises you make...
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Grin... its funny I'm nothing if not boring and consistant. Just looked back to the previous thread I wrote to you to thankfully see I did say - if she knows you are about she will squark and yell in her cage so a safe kitchen or confined room might be a better option'...
Phew I worry that i say one thing one day and another on another - but maybe I am fairly consistant on thw whole
Amazed from Sompting (wink)
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Hello again Diana! I don't know what I would do without you!
So you reckon I should be crating her only at night then? That could be an option. We have done a bit of interior remodelling which means that we have put a makeshift fence up in our kitchen diner thus stopping her from being able to get into the kitchen part (although no doubt she will be able to jump over that before too long!), and confining her to the diner bit which has no furniture in it other than her crate. We have put old lino down, so apart from her chewing the skirting (not the end of the world) she could just be confined to that room when I cant watch her because I am doing stuff or sleeping during the day or out of the house altogether. I only do nightshifts 2 days out of every ten - so I actually only need to sleep during the day one day out of every ten. The rest of the time I am either there with her able to have the run of the house, or we are out of the house for short bursts of time -apart of course from my 2 dayshifts, although if they fall on a weekend, which they often do, Ian is home all day.
So what do you think, use the room rather than the crate during the day, and only shut the door of the crate when it is bedtime? Should I not shut the door of the crate during the day at all? Or shut it only when I am having to leave her to her own devices later in the day when she has played? The crate is useful when I want to hoover/sweep up the diner without tripping over her!!
Oh questions, questions!!
Regards,
Aimi
" So what do you think, use the room rather than the crate during the day, and only shut the door of the crate when it is bedtime? Should I not shut the door of the crate during the day at all? Or shut it only when I am having to leave her to her own devices later in the day when she has played? The crate is useful when I want to hoover/sweep up the diner without tripping over her!! "
grin... and breath.... grin. I bet you are knackered too!
yes personally (and I emphasise the word personally here) I think crates are great up to a certain point. They are priceless but they have their limits out of reference to the dogs welfare. Its a weighing up job of if you want to feel she is totally safe and sound, BUT she may well shout the place down, OR if you can make a room safe enough to leave her to her own devices a little, which WILL cease the yelling for the most part.
Remember YOU are tired in the day those two days but she isn't, not for great chunks of time, and, worst still, many of that 10 day pattern she has your company and doesn't have to be tired and cooped up.
So for me, the next best thing to NOT 'cooping her up' is letting her have a small room to herself.
The crate, as I said, is there for your conveneience. So when hoovering a stuff, absolutely, put her in, but when you need QUIET and she is NOT tired, chances are she will object vocally so logic says she needs to be out for you to get shut eye.
This won't be forever. She will get the idea that she just does what your shift pattern dictates, but it will take a while.
A safe room remember means no power points at her height, be that floor ones or knee or thigh height ones. No cables and I would take up the kitchen bin onto a work surface to be on the safe side.
Just out of interest, on those days you work 9 - 6 and your partner works fulltime days too have you got plans for letting her out a couple of times or at least lunchtime?
Best!
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
I cabn't email or PM you unfortunately, but wondered privately if you like where you ended up going for your chocolate pup? Forgive my daft brain i am sure I should know email me privately if you like or respond on here....
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
I dont have Di's wonderful experience and knowledge but I can wholeheartedly agree with the crate/safe room option she is advising you to take.
Rolo is crated at night and is an absolute angel. Always sleeps through, no mess, no fess.
OH leaves for work most mornings by 6-6.30 at the latest. he doesnt have time to take care of puppy stuff but obviously his movements wake Rolo. I get up as he leaves, toilet her and give her brekkie.
The thing is I am so NOT a morning person and to me that time is like the middle of the night! So after a little cuddle and play I hot foot it back to bed for an hour or so leaving Rolo decrated in her puppy safe room.
She will amuse herself happily in there until I am ready to face the world again. As Di said recrating her after a whole night's sleep, especially if she knows you are around is asking for trouble of the noisy kind, I think.
Your diner sounds quite like the set up we have here and so I would just second all that Di has said and leave her in there with the crate open and some toys to occupy her
Dear Di,
Absolutely! Either myself or my partner will be coming home at about 12 to let her out for a wee and a play. My partner normally gets home by 5pm. I actually normally work till 4pm, and my 9-6 day shifts will be coming to an end soon and be replaced by 7am-4pm shifts. So Ian will leave her at 8am and I will be back at 4pm, with one of us coming back at lunchtime for half an hour to be with her.
I could not imagine what it would be like if myself and my partner both worked mon-fri 9-5! How do people cope? Or do you think that is kinder in that it is establishing a predictable routine from day one? Here's me thinking our combined working patterns were ideal for having a new puppy!!
Talk about a steep learning curve!!
Aimi
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Morning! I tried the puppy safe room this morning when I got home from work. It was not a roaring success, she started howling pretty much straight away and kept hurling herself at the door that separates the diner from the living room. I was listening to all this from upstairs in abject fear for her safety! Is this normal behavour? I am now scared to leave her but really need some sleep as have only had a couple of hours in the last 48!!
Aimi
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So after a little cuddle and play I hot foot it back to bed for an hour or so leaving Rolo decrated in her puppy safe room.
Is this normal behavour? I am now scared to leave her but really need some sleep as have only had a couple of hours in the last 48!! 
