Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: excellent advice
di has posted excellent advice on here ,but it must be remembered its no gaurantee it is the best practice that breeders are following by testing but things will and can stilll go wrong.
over the years hip dysplasia problems have been reduced but not erradicated ,eye problems because of their very nature arent sometimes spotted until dogs have been bred from.optigen will help reduce the incidence of pra but wont get rid of the problem unless we all test.the other problems such as hc etc often arent spotted early on.
a friend of mine bred her bitch last year hip score total of five and the stud dog total seven.both optigen tested both current bva eye certs as well as elbows tested.all the five generations on both sides having been hip scored all well under the breed average yet still two pups have developed severe hd ,its been a total nightmare for the lady who is and has always beeen carefull about how she breeds her stock.
you can only do so much ,unfortuanately it will always be the breeders fault whatever happens
as more results you can get out of litter, as more dogs are x-rayed
(hd/ed) as more you can say about the background.
I think a breeder should have 100% of a litter x-rayed, then one can say over generations what is the background.
the rest is a kind of guessing.
because if you breed out of a bitch with a low hipscore and ed 0 (for example) and the rest of the brother and sister have had bad hips or elbows.
the possibility that you will have ed and hd in your litter is very high.
When I see in a datebase results missing, I treat them in my mind as "bad" hip score or ed score, because a lot of people, when they have problems, and the dog has to be operated in the first year, are not letting the dog score anymore.
I couldn't agree more Evelyn. It always concerns me that potential breeders don't understand this and assume that the good hips of their own bitch is the only result they need, when in fact their bitch could be one of the few dogs in a litter to have good hips in which case they have a high likelihood of developing HD. Conversely, a dog with less good hips, but whose siblings all have low scores has a higher likelihood of producing good hips in any pups bred. Only recently a member was attacked for breeding from a bitch with higher than average hips, and things aren't as cut and dried as that (and before I get slated, I'm not saying I approved either btw ).
If all dogs in litters where breeding stock was from (including pet breeders), it would give a much more accurate picture.
ladies can I ask, genuinely, how realistic you think that ideal is?
Speaking for myself as I don't know EvelynH thoughts, I don't think it's realistic at all sadly. However, I do think it's useful to point out that , even though it's the best method we have atm, the current hip scoring is far from ideal in showing likelihood of inheritence, particularly when there are so many posts saying that if parents are hip scored things should be ok apart from the rare exception. Don't get me wrong, I'm definately FOR hip scoring and not discounting it, but I think some may expect it to be a more reliable method than it actually is. Not sure if I've made sense!
edited: Oops..posted it before I re read it have now edited it, but meant to say it is NOT realistic at all..... doesn't mean it wouldn't be good though
No absolutely not, but I think you and I probably agree that when way less than half of labradors bred are hipscored at all at the minute, before being bred, its just going to be impossible to encourage anyone (as I have never heard of any kennel doing this - scoring even a couple of pet dogs from a litter they kept from to compare let alone the whole litter) to do something as expensive and dynamic as this.
As you say, doesn't mean its not a nice idea, and I know in countries where scoring is demanded as a requirement to register the pups some do take this path a little more, but I know I wouldn't have the funds or desire to ask pet owners to give their dogs to me to do this for the day, but conversely, I do love seeing unexpected hip score results come through from dogs I have bred or dogs out of the stud dogs to help me chart a fuller pattern in the Joan Macann books or now on the kennel club databases.
Jem, seriously, would you do this for your own stock? I ask really out of complete curiosity as have no desire to do it myself and feel maybe that is a bad thing on my part.
Di
____________ ´...exactly which part of ´WOOF´ do you not understand???..."
Di
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).
have now edited it, but meant to say it is NOT realistic at all..... 