Becs  Offline
The Clique Chick Queen
Joined: Dec 10, 2005
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Posts: 10127
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114301 LabPounds
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No.of Labs: 1
Lab Names: Hartley (black lab) Zorro (Golden retreiver) Flo, (JRT) Ted (mini dachsi) & Mouse (brown Lab)
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Location: gloucester
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think its probably fair to say that in any event or lifestyle involving dogs there are extremes that us rotten humans will go to in order to 'be the best'.
I used to compete in agility with Flo and for every 20 good, considerate handlers there was always the one that took it out on the dog if they didn't do well (and it was the handlers fault 99% of the time when they mucked it up  )
Pet dogs are probably more abused and mistreated overall if the dogs in my road are anything to go by (most never get to stick their noses beyond the garden gate  )
Shame on us humans
Becs and the Gang
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Diana Offline
Dual Personality
Joined: May 30, 2006
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Posts: 19447
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128369 LabPounds
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No.of Labs: 5+
Lab Names: Mallie, Fish, Tom, Bondy, Mia, Ruby & Otter!
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Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I know the book you refer to ALB Nicola and yes I agree culling is rather outdated, but certainly was something hardly even thought of, as a modern farmer wouldn't with a sows litter if there was something in there that would cause him problems to raise - or calves, or lambs etc etc.
This won't go down well, but myself, whilst i adore my babies produced, and I really in some ways admire those who try with a cleft palete pup, or one who is stricken with a problem, heart murmour, that sort of thing which would restrict his life, I would humanely cull using a vets services of course. And although i will work on a puppy for some time after birth if he is 'blue' or won't respond well, there comes a point when i leave fate to decide if he lives or dies as I feel the strugglers, the extras, that would have died in the wild are the ones who drag bitches down, take the focus off the other pups and often time and time again get rejected by the bitch but WE force her to try and raise the pup.
Gosh we are only about 50 years, if that, maybe 45, from most chocolates being culled at birth...maybe 80 years since most yellows were....
Oh dear, I have wandered so far off topic I need a map and compass to get back 
Di
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Maddie Offline
Mummy to the Girlie Gang
Joined: May 10, 2005
Age: -1964
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Posts: 6422
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37068 LabPounds
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No.of Labs: 4
Lab Names: Coco, Bluebird, Milly and Carys
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Not ALB but the International version FRTS - could not get a copy of ALB! Some of what it says does make absolute sense though. The culling, whist it sound abhorrent, makes a kind of warped sense, if you see what I mean.
Becs, as an "agilityiste", yes it is the handlers that **** up 99% of the time!! Me more than most which is why I wanted a show dog!!!!!
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Nicola |
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Diana Offline
Dual Personality
Joined: May 30, 2006
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Posts: 19447
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128369 LabPounds
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No.of Labs: 5+
Lab Names: Mallie, Fish, Tom, Bondy, Mia, Ruby & Otter!
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Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Culling, whilst distasteful actually does make a lot of sense. We allow our girls to raise litters of 9, 10, 11...even 13 pups, this just wouldn't happen in the wild. Litters would rarely all make it and if they did it was usually because they were 4's or 5's in the first place...
Of course the nature of being a domestic dog is that we lend a hand and help them raise the extra pups. And rightly so. WE asked for the litter not them. BUT an intersting aside, as on a 'competition' thread not a chat one, is that I have read multiple times, and experienced it that very very few champions or outstanding dogs TEND to come from large litters.
Having and raising larger litters DOES tend to reduce the quality of the pups in general however hard you try to keep huge litters well fed and even. It makes sense to be honest....
I am just about to buy in myself a new puppy... and actually was quite gutted when the bitch had 10. I sincerely hope for 5's and 6's maximum myself when wanting to keep for competition and like to buy in from small litters. Just the fact there ARE ten pups has made me consider that I might NOT buy in from this litter now...
Of course there are exceptions, but certainly breeders did have the welfare of the bitch and puppies in mind WHEN culling years ago in cases of larger litters...
Di
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