Colour inheritance- will chocolate come through?

dalesvic

Hiya,

I am hoping someone will be able to enlighten me on the possibility of Fennel having chocolate puppies if I ever decided to breed from her.

I know there have been a few threads on this but they've still left me a bit unsure, though I will read back and try and figure it out.

Fennels dam's father was a chocolate lab, although she is black. Grandparents and dad otherwise are black. Is there much chance of the gene passing through- and if she was put to a black dog carrying chocolate or a chocolate is there some possibility of her having chocolate puppies?

Also, is there anyway to find out what genes she carries, like DNA typing?

Final question... and if she was put to a yellow is there any chance of yellow pups?

Sorry lots of questions I know- I shall go and try and answer them but I start reading articles on line with interest, but they soon get quite heavy and complicated it seems! Rolling Eyes

Vicky

dalesvic · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject:

OK I have been reading the 'fox red' thread again- very good and has answered some of the questions I asked pretty well except one thing I can't get my head around.

Diana wrote that black cannot be 'carried' and it is just the colour that they default to whenever something doesn't fit. But surely these black dogs which have ancestors going back that are black have some genes? If it cannot be carried then how can it passed on, or determine the colour of say my girl who is black. If she has no chocolate gene's then does she have 'no' genes. Surely there is some inheritance?

Also if a puppy inherits one chocolate/yellow gene from one parent- and if they exist a 'black' gene or even no gene from the other parent- so there is a mismatch- is black dominant over those colours? Is there any dominance involved, ie choc and yellow gene inherited- which appears? Or is it just luck?

Back to the reading ....

_Jules_ · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject:

http://www.lockeonlabradors.com/coat_color.htm

I found this link which has little (easy to understand) charts, showing the different probabilites with each mating. Wink

I think I get it....but then again........ Rolling Eyes

_Vicky_ · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject:

ok as I understnad it;

genes come in pairs and each pair contains a colour - the chocolate reaches out for chocolate and if it doesnt find it then the dog is black. Black is if you like the blank canvass.

I THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dalesvic · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject:

OOO great website thanks very much!

Diana · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject:

Hi Dalesvic,

OK, because of the fact your black has one chocolate parent your black absoluely nd totally definately will carry chocolate. Indeed she IS half chocolate, she just latched on to her mothers black coat colour gene instead of herfathers chocolate one but she will still carry chocolate.If you use a chocolate on her the litter statistically should be 50/50 black and chocolate. If you use a black who carries chocolate statistically you slightly lower the probablility of chocolate being produced but she certainly absolutely has the ability to.

Yes there is a DNA test you can under take (just a mouth swab not a blood test) to find out if she carries yellow. You will not need to do it as she WILL carry chocolate.

If she carries yellow andyou use a yellow on her you will also need to ensure that yellow carries chocolate or you will only get yellow and black pups, no chocolates, as both will have to carry chocolate to produce it. A bit like if she doesn't carry yellow, putting her to a yellow is fruitless in terms of producing yellow pups. If she doesn't carry it, she won't produce it even if he is yellow himself.

So DNA test her if you have a burning desire to produce yellow. But its better not to mix your yellow andchocolate lines really because there is a chance of producing inorrect pigmentation when you dable around in yellow x chocolate matings. Not a dreadful thing in itself in any way really but not a desireable course of action intentionally.

If she does carry yellow, use a yellow on her who has been tested not to carry chocolate to only bring out those black and yellow sides of her. If she doesn't carry yellow then stick to black carrying chocolate or chocolate for a husband.

Di

Diana · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject:

The best testing centre is in Canada and here - you can get this done in the Uk but to my knowledge they still insist on a blood test, and really when these guys oly want a cheek swab for the same thing thereis no competition, there is nothing in it money wise either when you work it out:

http://www.vetgen.com/pricing.html

Di

Diana · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject:

Black is the dominant colour in our breed. To try and be really straightforward, think of it as that it swings to black IF the other colour that is being looked for isn't found in both parents. Therefore of course when you mate two blacks the puppies will all be black UNLESS you also find that both parents not only carry another of the colours BUT also that they BOTH carry it.

Hence there being so many blacks because black comes and throws his cloak over everything unless everything is just 'so' to produce any other colour.

Of course dogs progressfrom all being black by way of matings between - two animals of the same colour - say choclate or both yellow - OR of course black to yellow or black to chocolate matings.

Now of course if that black parent of those matings doesn't carry chocloate with the chocolate mate or yellow with the yellow mate, all those pups will default to black. BUT all those pups, althugh black themselves, will carry the colour of the other parent, so yellow or chocolate respectively and will be able to produce it next generation (like your bitch) if mated to the right colour dog.

Black is not carried, it just 'is' as such. To step in when nothing else hit the spot;-)

Di

dalesvic · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:

Thanks Di, a very informative answer Very Happy

Fennel's mum was actually the one with black mum, chocolate sire- so he was her grandsire. Hence I was wondering the chance of her being able to produce chocolate puppies. I think from looking around, it says the chance of her carrying the chocolate gene is 50:50, and so I was interested in whether I would be able to test if she had inherited it or not. I presume the test you mentioned would be able to? Thanks for the link.

I was also asking about the yellow, in terms of if a dog has one yellow gene from a parent would it turn out yellow, but as you explained black is the dominant colour and so it would not.

Basically if I ever did breed from her, I would think about using a dog carrying chocolate if she carried herself and there was a chance of chocolate puppies. Otherwise I would stick to a true black Wink

Thank you for the warning about mixing yellows and chocolates Smile

, I presume you are meaning they can end up with a brown nose rather than a black one?

Vicky

monya · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject:

wow that is very interesting reading