Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: down
Quote:
We have tried to coax him with treat by puting them on the floor and also tried to get him to go undr our legs but no joy. Any ideas as to what else we could try
?
With a dog this age, a nice way to train 'down' is with a clicker. You begin by shaping the dog to dip his nose, then his head, then shape him into a play bow, and finally shape his whole body including head and nose flat on the floor.
There is no conflict with method, and it should not take more than a couple of weeks of twice daily sessions to get a reliable response. I have had dogs do it in a couple of days, but you need to allow longer with a dog who is set in his ways and has no previous experience of the clicker. Clicker training a new dog also helps build a nice bond between you as it is very entertaining for the dog
If you are interested and want specific instructions let me know and I will post them up for you.
Hell yess... I do that... sending them out, then standing, with my weight on one leg, arm still half in the air watching intensely, desperately trying to keep my gob shut.... whilst they become a pinprick
Actually I have truely succeeded for the first time with a dog TO make it so dependent on my vocal commands that she, who would go 150 yards on one back as an 18 month old, now, as a 3 year old, stops every twenty yards to double check that 'back' is still what is required - through me yelling 'back! back! too many times until my silence made her think something was/is wrong!!
Its SO damn easy to do, and SO damn hard to untrain! Getting there in untraining it on lots of runners this season, she doesn't give a fig for me once she has clapped eyes on a runing bird and will go to the next county if need be on half a 'ba.....!'
Not one other dog I own or train or have owned does it, it was all me, sensitive dog, insecure dog, and managed to **** her up in six short months when she hit a vunerable period when we stepped up a gear with our competition work and training She then started to lean on me hard, and I supported her all the way - unfortunately!
Pippa... can you explin th word 'shape' as in 'shape him into a play bow'...
Do you mean actually put him into that position physically, or to shape/mould his body into by way of behaviour or it by ecouragement and useful display of treats in the right places... not quite sure...?
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: clicker down
Hi Diana
True ‘shaping’ involves no physical contact with the animal at all. It is the process of altering behaviour in small increments by ‘marking’ tiny changes in behaviour that the animal displays spontaneously, and pairing the marker closely with a reward. Usually for dogs, the best ‘marker’ is a clicker because the changes in behaviour may be very small and fleeting, and the clicker is a very tight, precise and consistent sound. Other markers can be used - a flashing light for a deaf dog for example.
Some clicker trainers will also ‘lure’ behaviour with treats first, especially for the ‘down’, but in this case with a dog which is resistant to being lured or manipulated, ‘free shaping’ is the best option. It is also fascinating and fun to do.
With the ‘down’ you begin by clicking the dog for just dipping his nose towards the ground. (Each click is followed by a tiny treat and the dog is trained to expect this before shaping begins). Within a few minutes the dog begins to repeat the nose dip more and more often to get the treat. You then withhold the treat occasionally and this ‘inspires’ the dog to try harder ( its called an ‘extinction burst’) In trying harder he eventually dips his nose even lower and then you begin clicking for this lower dip and soon refuse to click the shallow ones. In a short space of time you have a dog which is willingly offering new behaviours and trying to work out what you are looking for, what it is that will get him more rewards. All the time you are training you keep shifting the goalposts a little, making him offer a behaviour that is closer and closer to the final position or action you want to achieve
Not only is it a great way to establish basic behaviours in sensitive or very young animals, it creates an intense focus on the handler which is a useful training and bonding aid.
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