Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: Lay Down
Just got a 4 Year old Male Lab from Labrador lifeline Trust. A well behaved and almost fully trained to suit our needs. The problem we are having is he will not lie down on command. We have tried to coax him with treat by puting them on the floor and also tried to get him to go undr our legs but no joy. Any ideas as to what else we could try?
Asking a dog to lie down, is a bit like asking them to submit, as they are in a more vunerable position.
I would stop trying for a month ......During that time whenever you see him going down of his own accord, tell him " Down...Good down" give him a gentle stroke or a treat......Once he is more settled, then try asking him to go "down" and you may get a nice surprise.
Yes, I know it's a common obedience exercise, but it is something I never teach my own dogs. As working gundogs, a dog laying in long grass is not in the best position to mark the fall of a dummy or game.
About the easiest and gentlest way of teaching the down is with your dog sitting on the left, to kneel beside him and place your left hand on his shoulders. Now slip your right hand behind his front legs and sliding your arm forwards and up, lift his front legs from under him and lower him to the ground with the command "Down!"
As in all things, it is easier to demonstrate than to describe.
Hi, I'm from Southampton too! At four years old, Zola is naturally going to be less receptive to training than a pup would be. And like others have said, laying down is submissive. You need to communicate to Zola that you are boss! Give eye contact and mean what you say. I'm no expert but I have found reading books on labs has really helped me to understand their behaviour. Find out about your body language too.
Make Zola know that YOU are the boss of the house.
I'm from Southampton three, I live in Shirley - just by the common which is great for dog walking (except a few events like the fair) there are also some good thainers in Southampton, I went to Scallywags who do a course in Merryoak, although he's already trained this will strengthen the bond with you and training isn't a one time thing and so extra training is always a bonus.
I suppose John, ditto in some ways, I don't use sdonw a great deal wither in day to day life, infact..... well, never! I always wonder almost why folks would wish to train itexcept for competition.
the only time I use it religiously, I have to say is when my dogs are next to me during a drive. I find it steadier. Well, that said, out SHOOTINg I tend to let them sit so they can mark any runners, but at a trial or during a working test if there is drive and so no runners will be coming (or at least not sent for as regards afield trial during a drive - a debateable point I know...), I have them down as I find it steadier and they REALLY know - 'you are not going to be sent anywhere matey so best just shut up and wait up!'
Just interesting I find little use for a down in life either - and only now and then in gundog work!
me, i tend to teach it with treats, I know you don't use treats John. I sit the dog up, kneel next to him, make him know I have a treat in my hand then put the treat on the ground with my hand cupped over it infront of the dog - close enough that he has to bend to get it, then as he does, with his nose attached to my hand, slide my hand forward so he has to come 'down' to follow it. I encourage him to follow it down and not stand his back end up by gentle pressure on the back and shoulder to slightly push them off balance- saying, importantly 'dowwwwn' as they actualy GO down and whilst IN a down, then I realise them with a 'good boy!' and do it again!I start only by doing it on a comfy surface such as a carpet or rug, never concrete or tiles.
I do it that way so in future I can put a treat on the ground and point at it and say 'down!'.Then go to just pointing and saying 'down'....
But its much easier to teach a pup than an older dog. I wouldn't push anything right now with a 4 year old rescue, just bond and enjoy him and teach him solidly only the commands you need, no frilly extras.
Di
I find it so interesting Di, just how much our dogs learn from us without us actualy setting out to teach it! On a cold windy day I've so often put Anna into the down behind some long grass or rubbish to get her out of the cold wind. . . . . . . But I've never taught it!
Also interestingly, although I never train my dogs with treats, when instructing a pet dog class I always use treats! I always think the use of treats there helps to overcome any inconsistancy in their actions. (My dogs love demonstrating to a pet dog class!!!!)
As to the concrete, I could not agree more! It would not be the first time a really fast dog would have chiped a bone in the elbow by dropping onto a hard surface! Quick dogs like working sheepdogs are probably the greatest at risk.
We are a baffling lot eh, John! When I take classes for the club, or train individuals i am a great one for saying 'stop overcommanding'. You've made yourself clear now shut up and enforce if the command is not obeyed... Yet whilst BEING trained my own instructor who is also a good friend constantly takes the living royal pi** out of me for commanding for the sake of commanding and gassing on to my dogs...
Then it ends up like this:
Me 'Jade Back!....... back!..... back!.......
Me: ... Oh, damn it,...oh I know... but...( in a feeble manner - my instructor can be a SCAREY woman!) ... i wanted to keep her going..... and...oh bah!..... see, see shes stopped now I've stopped saying 'back!''
Instructor - 'well of course she ******* has you've ******** taught her to stop when you stop ******* twittering on at her - all the time you are bleating she knows to keep going!'
At a training test with Amy this summer I had to send her back for a long (To her) blind. Our Chairman, who was judging the test said, "Stop drying yer nail varnish John, she's going away from you for goodness sake so cant see you!" She did a perfect retrieve, but I'm quite certain that if she had not been watching me through the eyes in her behind she would never have made the distance!
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