Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: electric / vibration / spray COLLARS
Just wondering if anyone has any experience of these? I really dont want to give Bertie an electriv shock and would prefer something more humane but I do need to do something.
Bertie is a 6 year old black lab who thinks everyone one in the world is his friend ! He is a loverly dog and i wouldnt swap him for anything but as i like to let him off the lead in the woods and the muddy weather has started again i need to do something. Basically when out and off the lead if he spots someone 50 metres or more away and i havent spotted them in time enough to put his lead on he will sprint towards them tail wagging and jump up at them to play or say hello. Labrador or not it is probably a scary prospect seeing 7 stone of dog sprinting towards you.
I try shouting and all sorts but once he has started his run he wont stop which is where i thought of these collars - can anyone advise ?
just my personal opinion but i don't like the idea of them at all and think that they are just for extreme cases not bad recall.
can you not try re-training or yummy treats for when he comes back to you? failing that keep him on an extendable lead untill he gets the idea.
I would definately use a long line, and train recall rather that use a spray collar. I realise it can be very frustrating having to take a step back, but i think spray collars only have their place in the hands of an experienced trainer, as it all depends on getting the timing spot on.
Jacque and Roxy xx
____________ I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand !
Hi
Those types of collars could do alot more harm to Bertie then good! I'd strongly suggest you don't use any of them!
Like 'mommy' said it's best to go back to basics as this is the only sure way to get Bertie to come back to you.
Try using a long line (You can probably get one at a pet shop). This allows Bertie to have some freedom on his walks but also allows you to stay in control. You can recall him (in public) and use rewards! He'll get the hang of it and Bertie stays happy!
I'm sure someone will help further!
Added to say: I'm a slow writer and others have suggested the same! It can take a while but there is no quick fix, patience and persistance really is the best way!
____________ Kimberley,Sheppy and Amber
Amber/Shep
I have been trying that one for 2 years !! sometimes he stops if you shout in time but once he is underway there is no stopping him
Not only train with him on a lead until he understands the concept but keeping him on a long lead when out. If he goes to bolt and ignores you, you can haul him back.
At least until he has mastered it, you will be in control of him and he wont run into a possibly dangerous situation.....for which the liability will lay with you as owner. One day he may bolt to a lead agresive dog or just a generally nasty one and get really hurt. Or someone who has a genuine fear of dogs etc.....
Absolutely do not consider using any type of electric collarfor this circumstance. These are meant for dogs with extremely bad problems which are half a step from being utterly given up on and possibly even PTS such as sheep worrying, maybe severe aggression and an owner not strong enough to hold them etc etc.
If you shock your dog as he approaches starngers, he will soon NOT be a friendly outgoing dog but a quivering wreak who will consider strangers *a bad thing*.
Only extremely experienced professional trainers should even mildly consider using them. They are very invasive, negative and can cause actual mental and physcial harm to the dog.
That said I am not belittling your problem NOR making out you are some kind of incompetent or cruel dog owner - be assured.
You have a very mild problem with many avenues to try and improve and then solve this. Please meantime be happy that you dog is being a little naughty but all in the name of good temperament, happiness to see people and high spirits
Leaving hidious electric collars out of it, the other things you mentioned are gizmos and gadgets that again can be very abusive in the wrong hands. Timing is everything. TRAINING is everything.
Firstly I would strongly recommend you go to dog training. These things can't really be overcome on a forum BUT of course we can give some tips to help meantime. Most vets can recommend reasonably priced and well run local training classes. Just drop in and out when it suits you but it will help enormously.
Secondly. Buy or make yourself a long line. NOT a flexi/extendi lead type thing which zips in and out of a plastic handle piece, they are one of the daftest devices known to man and can cause horrible accidents and damage to you, walkers, cyclists and your and other dogs, but a long line about half the length of a washing line. Horses lunge lines are the sort of thing if you tap 'horses lunge line' into a search engine, but most pet shops do them.
Training long lines they are also sometimes called.
Then think through the problem logically. he has learnt to ignore you when something more interesting is approaching. Think about your dog and what makes him tick. Is it balls? Squeeky toys? Rustly packets with nice smelly cheese in? biscuits? Sasuages?
At home in the garden have a little practise, doing recalls, calling him to you both formally when he is sat up and you have asked to stay and walked away, AND when he is strolling about sniffing. Call him in, give him a treat or a quick game with the toy if food is not his bag.
Practise there first and meantime on a walk at the moment don't let him off the long line, he will gets tons of exercise but you are ALWAYS UNDER CONTROL.
When its going well in the garden, possibly straight away, practise with the long line. Go out for a walk and stroll about, wait for something or someone to appear that he would normally run to. Suddenly turn into his absolute best mate, clap laugh call him REALLY cheerfully and in a high pitched excited voice, if he ignores you no harm is done because you have him on the long line. Go back a step to the garden and then maybe outside your house, then somewhere with someone or a dog approaching but still MILES away, then with them a bit closer, until he is absolutely certain that when you call, a REALLY great treat or 'squeek squeek squeek' is about to happen followed by a game!
Its about making yourself more interesting that the aproaching thing. hard I know, which is why 'props' must be used.
You can see how you progress. When he is coming back on the long line fine for his treat or game, you can put a lead on him, make a big thing of taking his lead off, when a person is approaching, letting him have a bit of leeway, and then if he goes to run, haul him quickly in on the long line. he will be SO shocked, he thought you let him off the lead! You are magic! You always have control even when he THINKS he is offlead! wow dad/mum!
Classes will help deaden his excitement to people and other dogs too a little if he mixes more with strangers and dogs weekly. They won't become so exciting.
Obviously this will take quite a few weeks to overcome but putting an electric collar on is no way forward. It won't stop him running away, he has no clue WHAT the zap or spray is for.... They are hidious things and well left alone.
Think of it like this - if the dog is running away from you and gets zapped, what does it teach him? Absolutely nothing. Not to come back, not to ignore you, nothing, you still have no control the dog just thinks there is this mad monster strapped to his throat and is likely to run scared to try and get away from it, possibly ignoring your further and possibly even into a road. Some dogs never recover from being trained using such devices.
Good luck with the easier happier programme!
Do ask anything not clear
Di
Great advice Di! I need to go back to basic with Coco and it may be a good thing to start Blue off on recall in the same way. (So far Blue is fine when it's just me and her but with other dogs she's getting a bit more "independenet"!)
As others have said, electric collars are not the way to go. If the training you have done is not working then you need to look at what you are doing with a view to trying to see where it is going wrong. Remember, Labradors are gundogs and as such are one of the most bidable of breeds so with correct training they will do almost anything. Read Di's advice and just to add a little, Resolve as of now that he will never EVER again be allowed to ignore a command. This really is the biggest single reason for dogs ignoring you. They have learned long ago that if they do ignore you the skys do not open. Nothing decends from heaven and smites them dead, in fact really, there is no great reason for bothering if they dont feel like it!!
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It can take a while but there is no quick fix, patience and persistance really is the best way!
