Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: Why does he bark
Hi can anyone on the forum recommend a trainer who can help me stop Charlie barking at male dogs he only barks when he is on the lead and the other dog is on the lead, iv been taking him to ring craft classes because we show him, in the ring i keep him busy with liver cake, i cant think why he is doing this we have a lab pup Alfie he is 4 months old he is good as gold with him and has got a bit quieter in the house, when he is off the lead he will greet over dogs and walk away and if a dog is nasty to him he walks away he is not a nasty dog its driving me nuts and spoiling his chances of doing well in the show ring, people do look scared when he barks at there dog he looks so nasty i wonder weather Victoria Stilwell reads the forums
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Why does he bark
" i wonder weather Victoria Stilwell reads the forums [/quote]
.... we can only hope not....huge grin!
Its a tricky one but has to of started somewhere at some point. Curing is hard when you don't know what started it. Its impossible for him to do this at a distance and always be correct that the dog he is barking at is male. My feeling is that it has been acoincidence that its always males if it is. Its possibly slightly larger dogs, and males tend in their own breeds to be slightly larger.
Is it at all breeds and colours? Just some?
He is certainly without a doubt picking up something from you as this is confined to when he is on the lead. It might not be NOW that this 'message' passed down the lead but certainly it would have been in the past. A barking dog on a lead is mostly saying 'don't come near, i'm big and strong you know.... don't come any nearer' but then if sociable when OFF the lead HAS to of picked that up through a human behaviour because his own dog interaction, when not involving human contact too through the lead, is satisfactory.
Why is it spoiling your chances in the ring if he doesn't do it at shows? If he does do it at shows has anyone talked to you about it? You might want to cure it before showing anymore as certainly people will not smile upon this from a labrador, especially if he looks like he really means business whilst doing it, AND it can be catching and upset otherwise friendly dogs.
How is he bred? Send that privately if you want but its not a loaded question.... There are certain traits common to certain lines.
Think back. When can you recall him NOT doing this, when did it start? Did it start on one day or start as him pulling a bit then starting to make some noise, then more and more?
Do you shout and yank at him when he does it (sor of understandably so) if you don't NOW did you used to? He will interpret this as toital approval and encouragement to the barking if he thinks you are jumping about and barking at the dog too...
Until such time that we as humans learn to speak 'dog' we will be unable to understand why the dogs are barking - barking is their way of communicating so it would be nigh on impossible to stop him barking.
When you are on a walk and he barks, how do you react? Do you shout and tell him off? Are you still using the loud sound that you have written about previously?
Does he always bark 1st? You say in the ring you distract him, can you not do the same out on walks??
Sarah entirely my thoughts. Spray collars on puppies? That treats the action and not reason behind it. It also encourages other owners with no formal guidance to use such things. Collars like these are all about timing. One second out and they are not just useless but abusive. So to play devils advocate, maybe just maybe at classes with an expereinced trainer on an older dog that has had EVERY route travelled to dicover and cure without such methods, fair enough, but on a puppy, with not a single route travelled is ridiculous.
Another thing about spray collars is that the remote control CAN set of other dogs collars in confined spaces.... just IMAGINE how terrible this could be for other dogs, how negative and utterly confusing?
Really, what comes in my mind is that a trainer that will put a spray collaron a puppy has absolutely nowhere else to go with her bag of tricks to unravel problems... what if the spray collar doesn't work? How does the pup react when the collar is off? Will it start to need it constantly? What is the world coming to....will i ever shut up???? grin.....
samson costantly barks at puppy class and chris the trainer said that next week we will try him with the spray collar to see if it helps
Hells bells, I would change your trainer quick smart.
Spray collars will go off if another dogs barks, how confusing is that to your dog?
My Paddy would bark in puppy class given half the chance, but to ensure he doesnt we just keep him working all the time, far nicer than a spray collar
i think we'll give that a miss then.
i was only saying what i had been told.ive tried to stick to everything the trainer has told me to do but it looks like she isnt always right.
its hard to know who to listen too
Phill, you really need to be looking into changing your trainer - any trainer who would, like Di said recommend that you put a spray collar on a puppy should not be teaching training. Plain and simple.
Positive reward based training should be the way to train, not punishment and negative training. If Samson is barking in class then keep him working, keep practising his sits and downs....keep his mind occupied, dont allow him the chance to bark - doing that rather than using a spray collar will in the end have boundless rewards for you as his owner.
Its a tricky one but has to of started somewhere at some point.
Could it be that he barked in ringcraft and you tried to distract him with bait? The bark brings reward! He barks when on lead, but in ringcraft when you are distracting him with bait he is always on lead.
Just a thought. So often these things are "Learned procedures"
The problem with a lot of puppy classes is - and I hate to say this - instructors like the sound of their own voice too much. They rabbit on and on whilst these young puppies sit there, or spend too much time on problem puppies with everyone else sat up, which teaches patience nicely in older dogs but puppies cannot tolerate it. Its just another reason for a clever puppy NOT to whizz through the class levels because he may be able to do the exercises but often puppies start making noise from boredom as they are not equipped to cope
Di
hi di
thats exactly how it is at the class i go to.he usally starts through from what i can see is boredom as like you have said the trainer spends time with problem pups.
she also really does like the sound of her own voice and when i try to talk to her she just talks over me and doesnt really listen.
im not saying everything she does is wrong as we are slowly making progress.
she just happened to mention last week that she will try this collar on him and also told us to go to the class after as it is the same training but with a bit older dogs so he doesnt get as excited with the younger pups.
ill certainly pass on what you have told me and see if theres other things we can try as she hasnt tried anything else to stop his barking,just suggested the spray collar.
i deont know whats happened here?????
it was supposed to be after what di said
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and spoiling his chances of doing well in the show ring, people do look scared when he barks at there dog he looks so nasty i wonder weather Victoria Stilwell reads the forums 
