New breeder advice please?

bingaling · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: New breeder advice please?

Hi everyone,

I am in search of a yellow lab pup (my very first, so excited!!) and after finding a breeder I feel comfortable with, it turns out the pregnancy didn't happen so now I have to wait until she tries mating another of her girls when she comes into season around October. Which means I won't get my long-awaited puppy until Feb/March next year and that is only if this mating works out!

But anyway, the point of my post is that I am an impatient sod so I thought I'd try contacting other registered breeders in my area and I ended up getting a referral from a breeder about a litter that was born last week. She knows about this litter because they used one of her boys to father the litter. I got in contact with the owners of the litter that have just been born and they have one yellow female left (yay!) But here's where I need some advice...

They are new at the breeding game and I believe this is the very first litter they have had. I had a very open conversation with the breeder about how we are both very new at this (me looking for a breeder, and him being a new breeder). Should I be staying clear of a new breeder, or should I be giving him and his wife a chance as everybody has to start somewhere? He sounded nice and didn't seem like he was trying to hide anything, just that he is new at this. If I was referred to them by the owner of the sire of the litter who has been breeding a fair bit longer, this should indicate they are ok to be buying from right? She did afterall allow one of her dogs to father a litter so this would affect her own reputation if things weren't all above board?

I have emailed the new breeder with a bunch of questions I have gathered from the net that say this is what I should be asking a breeder, so I'm still awaiting his response. He did encourage me to ask questions and he will reply in the next few days as well as attaching quite a few photos of the litter for me.

Would anyone else buy from a new breeder? I'm not sure what to do! I think getting my pup sooner rather than later could be a real life-saver for me as I've been quite a bit down the past 6 months, so I'm trying to evaluate everything and figure out what is best. Your great advice would be greatly appreciated! Very Happy

sue51 · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject:

Diana · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't have any hesitation. I tend to find new breeders and ones who breed only VERY occasionally are far less jaded about the whole thing, far more interested in asking questions of the mentors they have and generally terrifically excited about doing the whole thing as correctly as possible.

It sounds like a super super place to start and if you get a good feeling from them and they tick all the right boxes with the kind of puppy you wish to buy, certainly the fact they are first timers is no problem whatsoever.

They will always remember their first litter and the people who bought from them. They will welcome every contact you make and will treasure the photos sent. By the time they have been breeding 10 years, they will get a picture through and think...hmmmm.... now.... is that from Mollys second litter or Jess's first? Was that lot by x stud dog or Y stud dog.... and have to get the record books out - but NEVER with a first litter Wink

If the pups look plump happy outgoing and healthy then go for it with the usual otherhealth and registration boxes ticked Wink

Di

JohnW · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject:

How did you get the name of the stud dog owner? My thinking is, if this is a responsible person then the chances are a person they recommend would also be a responsible person. Answers to questions such as health tests would also give you an idea about this person. Australia and the UK use similar hip scoring schemes so the results of the hips should be similar to ours so a top limit of somewhere around 15 total (Right and left hip added together) should be about the worst used. If the score is much higher than this then I would be asking what the thinking was behind the mating. (They might have a very good and acceptable reason so I would not rule it out without asking the question.)

Regards, John

bingaling · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the great advice Sue, Diana and John!

I'm still awaiting a response to the questions I posed to the breeders, I expect they will reply sometime this weekend. Even though I knew to ask about the hip/elbow scores, the guy I spoke to actually brought this matter up to me before I had a chance to ask, which I take as a good sign. He said they had great scores and would locate the papers to get a copy to me (he sounded like he had an idea about what he was talking about, but at the same time you could tell he wasn't experienced in discussing these things - totally ok with me as long as he's upfront and tells it best to his knowledge!)

I don't know much about the mother of the litter at present (until the breeder responds), but I have a bit of information about the father as his owner was the one who referred me to these new breeders. It turns out that he himself was fathered by the dog that would have been the father of the puppy I thought I'd be getting from that first breeder I felt really comfortable (but then sadly found out she didn't get pregnant Sad

) So that makes me happy that I will still have a puppy from him through his son (if that makes any sense! Laughing

)

(I'm sorry I keep referring to them as mother and father - I'm still not 100% with the correct terms!!)

The father is an Australian Champion, with his father a Grand Champion and mother Australian Champion. They both come from the top Western Australian breeder (I've heard this from several breeders that they are #1 in the state). The father's hips are 3:4, elbows 0:1, and eyes are Optigen Clear/Normal (according to their website). So as far as the father's side of things goes, I'm very happy! I just have to wait and see what the mother is like. How weird that I know more about the father before knowing details of the mother!!

Oh and Diana, you make a very good point about a breeder's first litter - I never thought about it like that before!

I'm starting to get very excited about this! Fingers crossed that everything passes mother wise Very Happy

JohnW · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject:

Correct terminology for father and mother is sire and dam, but don't worry too much about that, we all what you mean and thats all that is important.

Hips are a very good score, no problem there. Elbows are not so good. Elbows are (assuming your system is the same as in the UK) scored 0 (perfect) 3 (Severe elbow dysplasia) a 1 is listed as "Mild Elbow Dysplasia". With a puppy from this litter I would restricting exercise to certainly no more than 5 minutes per month of age during the first year, (for example, at 6 months old it would be 30 minutes walking per day, not counting what it does in the house and garden) and would also keep a very close eye on the pup's weight. (I like to keep my pups slim anyway) I would also not use a puppy food for too long, prefering the slower growth given by a good adult food. All this, as you can imagine is aimed at keeping the strain off the joints whilst they are in their formative stage. It's not "panic time", but it is "be careful time"

Regards, John

dalesvic · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject:

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but I have read the advice with interest.

Do you mind me asking when you would stop feeding puppy food and go on to adult food to avoid them growing too quickly? Also, would you do this with any pup as a matter of course, or just if there were questionable hip/elbow scores?

My 16 weeks olds dam has one 'bad' hip, which is much higher than the other and which they put down to her being landed on by a very well built royal marine and totally squashed when she was a puppy! They said she was lame on that leg for a day or so after the incident, and so it is likely it will have affected her. However I would like to avoid any problems with my girl so would be interested in what you think Very Happy

Thanks, Vicky

Diana · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject:

Hi Vicky,

Sensible advice usually falls somewhere in the region of changing from puppy food to adult formula around 5 months of age. I don't give this advice to anyone in particular just everyone Wink

A poor-ish hip score, especially one with a known aggrivating factor such as an accident or fall may not be hereiditary by any means.

I am not a great follower of the five minute rule but understand entirely where the thinking comes from and wouldn't advise 'against' it.

If you know there may be aproblem with a pup because of real and actual information then adult formula can be fed quite happily from day one. it is only in recent times we have had these puppy and junior formulas. Before that every dog was fed the same, just more frequently if they happened to be young.

Di

dalesvic · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks very much Di, funnily enough after you had replied I found a thread on which people were discussing the answer to my question lol. It seems as though quite a few people do it and I shall certainly do so I think. It is possible that the poor hip score could not be heritable, however there's no harm in being careful, and as you say puppy food is a recent thing!

As for the 5 minute rule, iI think it's nice to have a guideline to stick to. As yet I don't really walk her regularly and she plays in the fields with the others normally at some point during the day. She is getting to an age where she needs to get rid of some energy though so walks will start soon!

bingaling · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:43 am Post subject:

So with possible elbow problems, would it be recommended to come off puppy food earlier than 5 months, or the 5 month guideline still applies for me too?

The 5 minute walking guideline I had already planned to stick to best I can, so definitely will now Smile