Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: food aggression. any ideas appreciated
well until yesterday bailey has shown no real aggression, only when playing tug. However we gave him his first chicken wing yesterday, and watched him eat it. the second one we gave him, then tried to take off him. He growled like he never has before. each time we tried to get close he would growl and try and swallow the chicken wing whole, when he would then have to cough it back up. After we had tried a few times, he went and hid behind the shed with it. clearly he did not want to part with it. With him being new to bones, we didnt want to push him too far in case he choked himself. Today we tried again. The first wing we couldnt get anywhere near him.The second wing, we confined him to the lounge. We managed to just stroke his back a few times, before he would growl and move away. We kept doing this, but he would only let us stroke his back for few mins, we couldnt stroke his head.
We dont want him to be this way, and we want to get control back, before it gets worse. He is good in that you can put the wing down and tell him to wait and he will, just once he has got hold of it, he is very possessive.
What should we do? we dont want to force him, but we know we muct stop it.
I personally havent ever had a problem taking anything from our dogs and would have no real idea of how to proceed. I remenber Mum made it known in no uncertain terms that growling over food would not be tolerated by removing whatever was being growled over.
Repeatedly I have taken stuff of mine from puppies to test the water- giving it straight back with a good dog praise both on taking and returning and its not been a problem- even raw bones.
when we play tug he will growl. we allow the growling, cos it is a natural response. if he then barks, or makes any move for the hand, we end the game and the toy goes away. this has only happened once. it is just playing and he and us know when to stop
Personally, I would never allow a game of tug... and certainly not allow the dog to growl while doing it........
Now to the chicken wings..... get a good pair of thick gloves ( I find chainmail gloves ideal, although rather heavy ).... and a pair of pliers.... grip chicken wing with pliers and hold, Allow Bailey to eat the wing while you are holding it..... whatever you do, do not let go of the wing....
After he has accepted you doing this a few times.... while still using the pliers, remove the wing from him for a few seconds and then give straight back to him to crunch... he will eventually realise that you are not taking the food away completely,, and that you are giving it back.....
It is an absolute neccessity for you to be able to remove anything from a dogs mouth, including food..... you may need to someday in an emergency....
Quote:
when we play tug he will growl. we allow the growling, cos it is a natural response
Growling over ANY item is NOT acceptable.... and you are encouraging his learned habits, by allowing growling while tugging.... Bailey does not know the difference....
ok. i did ask about it on an earlier post and was assured it was ok, during play. always done it with my other dogs in the past and they have been just fine
hi wendy, with him being so small still you really shouldnt have any problems stopping this, hes just pushing his luck and testing the water and by not just taking it out of his mouth immediatly when he growled unfortunatly youve shown him that the growling works. the strocking is'nt helping while hes growling, i would put him on a lead before you give him the wings, give it , leave him for a few seconds then give a leave command and take it out whether hes growling or not, then praise and give it back. you arent gonna get much of a bite even if he tries but if you leave it till hes 40kgs with teeth the size king kong then youd be in trouble! just keep at it , it'll probably only take a few tries till he realises that its not gonna work and make sure you take back anything else you give him as well( toys ect) not just the wings
thank you. will try that too have to say, he will let go of anything else. we walked round a car boot yesterday and he kept picking up allsorts of the ground. he will let go of them, and even let you fish round in his mouth for left over bits. just not the chicken lol
Is it surprising? Mum have just given me a particulaly good bit of food! The nicest I has ever tasted bar none, and now she is trying to take it away again. So I said "No mum, thats mine!"
He has not long left his brothers and sisters where, if he did not look after his food he would loose it. Food and procreation are the two driving forces of all creatures. Without both the race would die out so it is programmed into the subconscious via the DNA. Does he need to guard his food? No, of course he does not! So why did he? Simply because it is the “Normal” thing to do and he has not yet got use to the idea that he has no need to.
Dogs also understand their version of “Value”. Something new and nice is of a higher value than something “Normal” so would obviously be subjected to more guarding. Looked at like that, what happened was pretty normal, and pretty much to be expected. Taking food away from your puppy is, as far as he is concerned, depriving him of his food. It demands a huge leap in trust. Yes, you can take “Normal” food away, that is something which appears regularly on the dot. The chicken wing is not “Normal” food and he does not know whether he is ever going to see something so nice again.
You cannot dictate to a dog about taking food away. That is a matter of trust and trust is something which is built up over a long period of time. It is something you cannot force. Rather than taking food, which is likely to destroy that trust, a better way is to show that hands provide the nice things rather than remove them. I hold the nice things for my puppies to eat. I start with “Low value” food and gradually up it until I’m holding anything. When trust has been built up I’ll put less than the full amount of food in the bowl then pick it up when finished to add some more. In time I will start picking it up just before they have finished to add the rest, but I will always make sure they have seen that I’m holding more food so they KNOW I’m going to add to it.
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).... and a pair of pliers.... grip chicken wing with pliers and hold, Allow Bailey to eat the wing while you are holding it..... whatever you do, do not let go of the wing....
ok. i did ask about it on an earlier post and was assured it was ok, during play. always done it with my other dogs in the past and they have been just fine
and make sure you take back anything else you give him as well( toys ect) not just the wings 
have to say, he will let go of anything else. we walked round a car boot yesterday and he kept picking up allsorts of the ground. he will let go of them, and even let you fish round in his mouth for left over bits. just not the chicken lol
